20 Gallon Tank Setup - Is this good?

Would this be a good set up for a 20 gallon tank? Divided in half, each half 10 gallons. In side one, 1 dwarf puffer, 3 kuhlI loaches, heavily planted with live plants, one rock fixture. In side two: One betta, 3 dwarf loaches, moderately planted with live plants, one rock fixture, one fake anemone. Will be heated to 80*.

will I need co2?

Please let me know if this would be a good set up. No rush as It will be a couple of months before I can get the tank, I am still fluctuating as to what tank to get but I am pretty set on a 20 gallon, as it fits my needs and space perfectly. It allows me much more room for fish! I've got MTS and MFS! LOL
Brianna

 

I'm afraid the dwarf puffer would kill the kuhlis when they get really active.
Carol

 

I too had that worry. I did not think dwarf puffers could be kept with anything but otocinclus, but a forum member here, Timmy-Man, has kept his dp's with kuhlis. I did not think this was a good idea, but since I have investigated it and found that several other people also sucessfully keep kuhlis with DP's. If I do see any signs of aggression I will promtly remove them. Would it be possible to move the divider to give the betta and dwarf loaches more room, and add the kuhlis in with the betta and dwarf loaches (if I see any aggression from the DP)? I do really want to  have both dwarf loaches and kuhlis, but I cannot see setting up two tanks, a 20 gallon and atleast a 10 gallon for kuhlis. I don't think my mother would approve!

 

Kuhlis are wonderful but they wiggle up and down the glass and I was afraid the puffer might feel threatened. the dwarf loaches also move around quite a lot just watch and make sure the kuhlis and dwarf loaches don't stress their tank mates.check out these kuhlis playing in the bubbles
Carol

 

I too had that worry. I did not think dwarf puffers could be kept with anything but otocinclus, but a forum member here, Timmy-Man, has kept his dp's with kuhlis. I did not think this was a good idea, but since I have investigated it and found that several other people also sucessfully keep kuhlis with DP's. If I do see any signs of aggression I will promtly remove them. Would it be possible to move the divider to give the betta and dwarf loaches more room, and add the kuhlis in with the betta and dwarf loaches (if I see any aggression from the DP)? I do really want to  have both dwarf loaches and kuhlis, but I cannot see setting up two tanks, a 20 gallon and atleast a 10 gallon for kuhlis. I don't think my mother would approve!

brianna, I just got a dp..and was gonna put a ghost shrimp in there..whatever happens happens. but I am now interested in these khulI loaches...anyone have a pic of them..my google isn't working right.

 

I'm afraid they would be too small for your 5 gallon tank. They look like snakes, they are black and white striped. I don't have a picture. Thanks for your concern Carol. I will certainly watch them. I wanted the dwarf loaches because they were so active. Brianna

 

ok a ghost shrimp it is then. another question my puffer when he comes up to the tank swooshes his tail to one side of his body and leaves it there for awhile. then **** do the same with the other side of his body...but he'll go straight when hes darting around. hes so cute. he was one in a bunch at the store, and his tails has been nipped at pretty good...I'm glad I helped him and he has this whole tank to himself

 

Make sure his tummy is round but not bloated after he eats. And normally it should be kinda flat or a little pudgy but NOT sunken in. If it is sunken in he probably has internal parisites, also if he has stringy white poop he probably has Internal parisites as well. You would have to soak bloodworms overnight in a anti-internal parisite medicine then feed them to get rid of them. Good luck with your little guy, does he/she have a name?

 

Make sure his tummy is round but not bloated after he eats. And normally it should be kinda flat or a little pudgy but NOT sunken in. If it is sunken in he probably has internal parisites, also if he  has stringy white poop he probably has Internal parisites as well. You would have to soak bloodworms overnight in a anti-internal parisite medicine then feed them to get rid of them. Good luck with your little guy, does he/she have a name?

no his ummy looks normal is this tail thing normal though...are their tails always straight even when they're being curious and just looking at you..I'm concerned about his tail..it doesn't only stay at one side he'll swoosh it to the other too. o I named him bean..I'm really superstitous and hate naming cuz its like bad luck for me, but I couldnt help it the name just popped in my head and hes too cute to be without a name

 

I'm not sure if its normal or not... but I have never heard of that being a problem. "Bean" is a cute name for him!
Brianna

 

Black kuhlis (pangio javanicus) and striped kuhlis (pangio kuhli)

Black kuhlis

 

Great pics! I am afraid that the dwarf loaches are out of the question for me :'(
They do not sell them anywhere near me, and I looked online and they are $20 a peice. I have lost fish before that cost $10, but I could not see spending $20 on a fish. And I'd have to get them shipped, that's another $25 on top of that, minimum. So any other loaches that they may sell at petco or petsmart? I saw Angelicus loaches but they were $23 and they get kinda big. I already gonna have Kuhlis for the side with the dwarf puffer. Oh well I will have to figure something else out. Suggestions please?
Brianna

 

hmm I'm with you I have no idea what to put in with them besides ghost shrimp...actually I guess I can't put much else cuz my 5 gallon...well I'm sure there's something else I could put in there..you need 2-3 inches for the puffer...so as long as it didnt grow over 2 inches I should be able to get something else

 

First thing, dwarf puffers or "pea" puffers get only 1". Full grown. You cannot put ANY other fish in with it, besides shrimp. It will KILL any other fish you put in with it. The only acceptable tankmate for that tank with your puffer would be shrimp. That's it. Nothing else. Don't listen to what pet store people tell you either. They do not know anything and will tell you anything to sell a fish. Brianna

 

First thing, dwarf puffers or "pea" puffers get only 1". Full grown. You cannot put ANY other fish in with it, besides shrimp. It will KILL any other fish you put in with it. The only acceptable tankmate for that tank with your puffer would be shrimp. That's it. Nothing else. Don't listen to what pet store people tell you either. They do not know anything and will tell you anything to sell a fish. Brianna

o yes I know don't worry I meant shrimp not any other fish.. I was thinking either some other type of shrimp or snails..I do know at least a little about puffers lol ;D

 

Yes but sometimes shrimp will kill each other. Amano shrimp are good, and Cherry are good as well. Bamboo or "wood" shrimp are hard to keep alive I have heard. I would love pics of Bean and his tank! Brianna

 

I just setup a 20 gallon tank yesterday and wanted to ask a couple of questions. This is my first tank (I am setting it up with my daughter), and I did some research before setting it up, but it is obviously an ongoing learning process.

The tank was setup with eco-complete gravel, with a layer regular aquarium gravel on top. The regular gravel was rinsed carefully prior to putting it in the tank. The tank has a small rock formation in it and a piece of drift wood, all of which was also rinsed carefully before putting it in the tank (and all of it was purchased from my local fish store).

The tank has a few live plants in it (Amazon sword, anachris and baby's tears) - the LFS said they thought I could put those in right away, which I did.

I did use de-chlorinating drops on the tap water and the heater is set at ~78, but it is still settling in so will need to be adjusted slightly I think - it looked like it was closer to 75 in the tank this morning.

I have not put fish in yet, but the plan is for a small school of cardinal tetras and a dwarf gourami - possibly an otocinchlus catfish later once there is some algae growing for it to eat.

I have one specific question: The tank was clear yesterday after initial set, but this morning seems to have a slight greenish cloudy look to it. I have not tested the water yet - I will do that after work today. Does this sound like normal - part of the bacterial/nitrogen cycling starting from the bacteria that were in the eco-complete? I assume I should just watch this carefully for a few days and test the water.

And a more general question/input for things I should watch for given the tank setup I have.

Thanks for any help!

 

Welcome to FishLore!

Generally, green cloudiness indicates an algae bloom.

If you are not familiar with the nitrogen cycle, I highly recommend that you read up on it. It is the most important thing to understand when keeping fish.

I'm not real familiar with eco complete, but from what I understand it contains the bacteria that cycles your tank. Usually, that bacteria needs food to stay alive (and that food is ammonia and nitrite). When you have fish in the tank, the fish provide the ammonia, and the bacteria that consumes ammonia and releases nitries, provides the nitrites.

So you may need to add some sort of ammonia source. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about Eco Complete will join in on this thread.

Good luck!

 

Hello and Welcome.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Eco either. lol Green water usually comes from too much light and ammonia but you just setup your tank.

Depending on the driftwood it could be leaking tannis into the water giving it a tea-like appearance. Usually driftwood needs to be boiled first to get some of it out faster.

Cardinals need to be added to a well established tank, can be sensitive to water quality as well as Ottos as you know need some algae to graze on. They will eat algae wafers and fresh veggies like zuccinni.

How much light do you have? Baby Tears can be difficult to grow. They need a nutrient rich substrate like you have and high light to stay low. Make sure you have your light on a timer-8 hour photo period is a good place to start.

 

Thank you for the input - I think it is possible that it is the driftwood. I did not boil it before putting it in the tank. I can ask at my LFS if they have seen that with the driftwood they sell. I called it "greenish", but really it was only a very faint cloudy appearance that could also have been a more brownish-red tannin color and I don't think it could be algae yet. I was also only on my first cup of coffee, with 3 children making noise in the house, so my vision may not have been completely focused yet either.

I have read up on the nitrogen cycle and have some experience with water chemistry in other settings, but this is of course my first time working through it with an aquarium. The LFS seems pretty knowledgeable and did not mention anything about adding additional chemical with the eco-complete, but I can ask about that as well. They did indicate that they thought it would help get the tank stabilized more quickly and that I could add fish much sooner than if I were not using that substrate - which would also mean that I was adding the fish waste (i.e. ammonia) sooner. They are a locally owned store that specializes only in fish - so in addition to making me happier to support a local business, they also seemed to know what they were talking about (a opposed to the teenager working at Petco)

I did not have time to test the water this morning. I will do that this evening.

The tank does get some natural light, but I was planning to use the lights for 8 to 10 hours a day - so hopefully all the plants do well.

 

The LFS seems pretty knowledgeable and did not mention anything about adding additional chemical with the eco-complete, but I can ask about that as well.

I'm assuming that is directed to my stating that you may need an ammonia source.

Basically, what I meant was that if the Eco Complete does indeed contain the benifical bacteria that converts ammonia into nitrites, and the bacteria that converts nitrites into nitrates, that you may need a food source for that bacteria so it doesn't starve off. And that food source would be ammonia.

So you may need to add fish to the tank so there is ammonia production, or you may need to add pure ammonia to the tank.

But please note that the reason that I wrote those words in bold, is because I really do not know very much about Eco Complete, so I'm just not sure. But I am equating it with other methods for cycling a tank such as using Tetra SafeStart, or even seeded filter media. In both of those cases, if you do not provide an ammonia source, the bacteria will starve leaving you with a totally uncycled tank.

 

I am sorry if my initial response did not come across well. I did understand what you had said before and it made perfect sense to me, what I meant was that I was going to follow up on that - I have found my LFS to be knowledgeable, but also that I have to ask questions very specifically - I had not asked about that before, so they wouldn't necessarily have told me that I needed to add ammonia.

I did call them today - they did not seem sure what it was either - too soon for algae - according to them I should not need to add ammonia with the Eco-complete - best idea was that it is just the cloudiness that would be expected of the nitrogen cycling starting up - so I should check the water chemistry and watch it for a few days.

Your point is still a good one though - If I check the ammonia level this evening and it is 0, then like you said, I would wonder where those bacteria are getting their nitrogen to start the cycle. If that is the case,then if the cloudiness goes away I may think about adding some fish sooner (assuming the chemicals seem healthy for the fish) and just monitor the chemistry closely to see what happens.

Thanks again for your help

 

Looking at the tank again this evening, I am leaning much more towards this being tannins from the driftwood, which is mopanI driftwood.

I have not checked the water chemistry yet - but will do that soon.

So this brings up a couple of other questions:

1. Are the tannins in the water something that will affect the tetras, gourami or oto that I am planning to put in the tank?

2. Regardless of the answer above, what is my best option for removing the tannins? I have read that activated carbon will help - but this may not be good with live plants?

I know that I can also boil the wood to help remove the tannins, so I will probably do that as well.

Thanks

 

If Eko has beneficial bacteria then that means you need to add fish.

Tannis dose not harm fish or plants. Driftwood also loweres the pH.

Water changes & activated carbon to remove it.

 

I too will start off by saying Welcome to Fishlore and that I am in no way an expert on Eko Complete but I Googled Eko-Complete and here is what Dr. Foster and Smith had to say about it: “Complete aquarium substrate for luxuriant plant growth. Contains over 25 minerals to nourish aquatic plants. Packed in Liquid Amazon buffered "Black Water" solution, Eco-Complete offers immediate organic water conditioning- No rinsing required. Includes live, Heterotrophic bacteria to convert fish waste into natural food for your plants. Both original Eco-Complete Black and Eco-Complete Red are iron rich and eliminate the need for laterite supplementation and cable heating.” So from what they said I am with the others and would advise you to start adding fish right away before the bacteria starts to die off.

I use a product called Leaf Zone by API in my planted tank to help my plants out and they seem to really do well with it. I could tell a difference in my live plants within the first week of using it but it didn’t seem to make much of a difference on my plastic plants, LOL. I would recommend it to anyone with a planted tank.

I am not sure I would try and start off with Cardinal Tetras though. They can be a bit touchy when it comes to new tanks, I might suggest Neon Tetras who look a lot like the Cardinals and aren’t quite as touchy. A small school of 6 would be a good starting point so that you would be adding natural fish ammonia to the tank then once the tank. Once the tank has been up and running for a month or so you could add a school of Cardinals safely. Sometime waiting to add fish is hard but it will be worth it in the long run. I always advise to add fish slowly into the main tank and by all means quarantine any new fish for at least a week or two before adding it to the main tank.

Be sure to take the time to fill out your profile and keep it up dated so that when you need help others can refer to it for information on your tank. I might also add, be sure to include water parameter reading when posting questions about fish problems. So many post “water is fine or parameters look great” and that doesn’t help us much. I have seen posts where they said the water was fine but when you got right down to the readings it wasn’t.

Now for my take on the green tent to your tank, I too believe it is way too soon for you to be seeing any type of algae growth that would color the water already. It is more than likely it is the driftwood that is causing it so quickly. If it is the color will darken as time goes on but if it is something in the water that came from the substrates you added it should clear up as things settle out of the water back into the substrate. If you don’t like the coloration that drift wood causes you were advised well to boil the it to help remove some of the tannins. You can never remove it all because it is from the natural decommission of the wood and that will always be there. Driftwood also helps soften the water and lower the Ph so you might want to watch your hardness and Ph closely until the tank is well underway.

Once again Welcome to Fishlore and happy fish-keeping from all of us here.

 

I pulled the mopanI wood out and have it soaking in hot water. I also did a 25% water change - so hopefully without the wood in the activated charcoal in the filter will clean it up some.

I did check the chemistry - pH - ~7.6, Ammonia ~0.25 ppm, Nitrite and Nitrate at 0. The Temp is set at about 78.

I will let this sit for a day or two and see what happens - I want to get the fish in, but feel better waiting seeing that there is a little bit of ammonia in the tank.

Thanks for all of your help

 

Thank you for your response bowcrazy, I missed that as I was typing my own. I can definitely see now with the wood soaking in hot water that it is the source of the color in the tank. I will let it soak overnight 0 I don't mind the color, but it is not exactly what we were shooting for.

Any suggestions on using additional activated charcoal to clear the tank? I actually have some from a different project.

To answer one of your questions - I have been trying to let my daughter make as many of the choices as I can about the tank - I pushed her towards a school of tetras as a good choice (as opposed to a bunch of goldfish) - I didn't know at the time that cardinals were more touchy than some of the others (like neons) or I would have tried to steer clear of them. I would prefer to not push her to change her mind (she is only 8) - but if the tank starts seeming like it will be difficult to balance I may do that.

I realize that is not the best of reasons, but as anyone who is a parent knows, there is always the balance of pushing and letting things go as much as you can.

 

I hear you on the parenting part – raising grandchildren is so much easier, LOL. My wife and I provided a good balance for our children – she was the good and I was the bad most of the time. When the kids wanted to go and do they went to her and when they wanted a lecture on what not to do they came to me.

Oh and by the way I personally think you made the right choice on steering her away from the Goldfish, they are a pretty fish but are not really suited for aquarium life but rather ponds.

I noticed your water parameter reading and your right about maybe holding off with the ammonia testing at .25 ppm. You can always use products like Seachem Prime or Amquil to help protect the fish but it is always better to play it safe and hold off till the Ammonia and Nitrites are at zero and you have some Nitrates starting to show up. And yes you can use extra activated charcoal in the filter to help remove the tannins but I would just do some small daily water changes which would also help keep the ammonia level down.

 

I am actually thinking that moving forward the tannins are not something I want to deal with - so I may just get some additional rocks to put in for the structure. The mopanI looks nice, but it is enough to be learning to take care of the tank in the first place - the tannin issue is one I wish I would have known before and I probably would have avoided it - rocks are nice and simple...

My daughter has already written songs for her "cardinal tetras" so sticking with the option is best for now.

If I am going to keep the mopanI out of the tank I may opt for using some charcoal to clear the water up quicker - but will wait and see what it looks like tomorrow.

I do want to see the ammonia drop some - but with the eco-complete it is good to see there is something there to start with so the bacteria in that substrate can start working. The Nitrite was definitely at 0, but the reading (color) for Nitrate was possibly a little above 0 - I will check them all again tomorrow - I was expecting the pH to be a little lower with the tannins, so I am interested to see what happens with the wood out now.

 

Not sure how well the Eco works but you are not showing a nitrate reading, so I'd hold off on adding fish but you are going to need an ammonia source regardless. If need be then getting 100% Pure Ammonia from a hardware store will do the trick and do it fishless. There's great instructions on here for that. It can take several days to a few weeks to get a nitrite reading but every tank is different, same for nitrAte. Overall it takes 6 weeks or more to cycle a tank without a boost from a well established tank-gravel and filter media.

 

The tea coloring from the tannins will eventually go away, but it could take a while. In time all the tannins will leach out of the wood, and your weekly water changes will continuously dilite it, until one day you have clear water.

 

Thanks again for everyone's input - I pulled the mopanI wood out and soaked it overnight - but I think I may opt to just go with a rock formation instead - I don't really like the tea-color - even if it will eventually go away, so the easy answer is to take the wood out. I only did a 25% water change last night so that tank still has some color to it. I will change water again this evening.

I checked the water chemistry again this morning - still at pH ~7.6, ammonia went up to .5 ppm, nitrite and nitrate are still at 0, but the color of the nitrate test still looks like it may be slightly above 0 - just definitely not at the next color in the scale.

I think the ammonia is coming from my tap water - I need to check my dechlorinator when I get home today, but my water is treated with chloramine - so I am guessing that is why the ammonia increased. That is probably fine for the moment as the tank begins to cycle, but I am going to need to avoid creating spikes in ammonia with water changes once there are fish in the tank, so I may need to get water in differently.

 

The chloramine will release a very small amout of ammonia and should easily be processed once the tank is fully cycled. Plus if you are using Prime or Amquel+ for your water conditioner that small amount will be detoxed immeadiatly.

 

I am still doing 25% water changes daily and checking the water chemistry - the pH has come up some since removing the wood, which seems logical and the ammonia seems to be holding constant around .5 ppm.

I plan to put some fish in tomorrow to add more ammonia to the system via the fish so I don't lose the bacteria from the eco-complete - unfortunately the fish of choice (cardinal tetras) are a little touchy -

So my question is: If the goal is to have 6 cardinal tetras, 1 dwarf gourami, and an oto catfish (once there is algae for it to eat) - what would be a suggested order of adding the tetras and gourami, or is there a different fish that could be added to that tank without overloading it that I could add first? (zebra danios or some other hardier species?)

The tank is only 20 gallons, so I know I can't have too many fish in there.


Thanks!

 

after you get your tank more established, you could add some shrimp, and/or a snail. nerite snails eat algae.

 

you'll need 3 ottos and why not do another school of fish? all the fish your wanting are pretty sensitive

 

Another school of fish is what I was thinking - maybe starting with a school of zebra danios, but I am worried about having too many fish - Assuming a minimum size for a shool of fish is 6, thats: 6 danios to start off, then the 6 tetras and a gourami after the tank is settled, then some otos seems like it may be too much?

If that is not to much I would happily go that route as an alternative - I do want to get something in there before I lose the bacteria from the eco-complete.

 

I would recommend against adding any fish while there is still an ammonia reading.

But here's where I'm confused:
1. Where did the .5ppm ammonia come from?
2. If the Eco Complete contains the proper bacteria, the ammonia should have been proceesed by the bacteria, leaving you with 0ppm ammonia.

So I would recommend either adding an ammonia source such as pure ammonia (i.e. no surficants, detergents, perfumes etc), or a piece of raw shrimp that will release ammonia into the water as it decomposes until the tank fully cycles (0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrites and some nitrates)

or

Adding an appropriate size bottle of Tetra SafeStart and a couple of fish in order to get the tank cycled.

 

I think 6 zebra danios would be fine to start out with. There is other kind of danios you can do also. there is glowfish danios too. they come in neon colors. but are still zebra danios.

ya I think 6 danios, 6 cardinals and a dg, I recommend a flame gourami. He will Look good with the cardinals.

I think 3 ottos would be fine. you can maybe up the schools of your fish after you get some, and if their is enough swimming space.

 

I have been a little confused by the ammonia as well. I had thought that maybe it was from the chloramines in my tap water. I am using a dechlorinator, would that leave some small amounts of ammonia? I have been doing 25% water changes every day.

The ammonia level increased from .25 the first time I checked to about .5, but has stayed constant there.

There are live plants in the tank, at least one has dead leaf that I need to remove, so that could be decomposing a little? I feel like I am reaching with that one though.

I think at this point I am leaning towards your second option - some safestart and a few fish - but that gets me back to my question about which fish - the cardinals and gourami are out, so what is a good option for fish?

If I went with a school of zebras, would I still be able to add the other fish later without overloading the tank, or is there a different fish that I could only put 2 or 3 in the tank that would fit with the community once the tank cycles?

Thanks again for your patient and helpful replies!