20 gallon Amazon tank, but I have some concerns

Hello. I have discussed this tank in a different forum, but I want to see if you have some opinions on the stocking in this tank. I have recently started this tank. I added API Quick Start. I am thinking about adding pure ammonia to kick-start the cycling process. All the water parameters are at 0, as I added RO water to begin with. I have not conducted a water change as this was set up last Monday. The pH is at 7.0.

I have two chunks of driftwood. There is 2 sets of Dwarf Hairgrass, 2 Ruffled Swordplants (yes, I know these are too big, but for the time being) an unidentified plant I am going to call a weed, and Lobelia Cardinalis, or at least, that's what petsmart called it.
Black seachem sand, florite, 1 inch or so. Black and Green boxed lighting system designed for plants (it set me back $80.00, so I figure it's a good light). produces some heat too. I've got a suitable sponge filter running for a 20 gallon.

I want to stock 7 Cardinal Tetras, 1 Blue German Ram, and 1 Male Zebra Pleco with 2 Female Zebra Plecos.

My strongest concerns: I know that Cardinal Tetras and Blue German Rams really like Acidic water of 5.0-6.5, but Are Zebra Plecos really ok to go in the range of 5.0-6.0?? Most sources say 6.0-7.6, controversially. What should I feed them?
Give me the exact food so I can feed them to the right fish. I don't think Live food is a good idea for me sadly. Zebra Plecos, as in the standard Hypancistrus. Don't really care, as long as they're black and white stripes and healthy. I have a 5 gallon beta tank I think I could probably use as a quarantine tank. Here's my idea: I think I can also toss the beta in the 20 gallon so that I can use the 5 gallon as a temporary quarantine tank, but the pH is super debatable because of the cardinal tetras, and the Blue German Ram, and the Zebra pleco (actually the most alkaline preference). Diet will be intended as more protein related. Please give as much professional advice, I can't afford to lose any fish whatsoever. I have a month or so until the aquarium is ready. Can I just add the beta in now, and not add the ammonia? hahaha.

 

Ok I think you’re reading too much about these fish. All of these fish will be fine at a ph of 7. Last thing you want to do is be playing with your ph. What is your tap ph? Next zebra plecos are about $150 apiece. Hard to sex till adults and hard to breed. A 40g will be a better size tank.
As to not losing fish. No guarantees. Zebra plecos are very cool looking but very hard to keep. They say if planing to breed you need to start with 6. I’ve kept these fish years ago when they were still wild caught. Lived less than a year.

 

QuickStart will not cycle your tank by itself. Ammonia doesn't jump start the process. It is not optional. You need ammonia to cycle a tank. It has to come from somewhere.

The water parametyers are zero because nothing will happen until you add ammonia.

Unless you are confident in your abilities I would not risk several $150 fish. This is from TFK Magazine: "Zebras live in fast-moving, highly oxygenated currents, where the water is soft and has a pH of about 6 to 7 and a temperature of around 82° to 90°F (28° to 32°C)."

In a small tank you would do better IMO with some corys and no plecos. Also, corys are not nocturnal like the Zebras, so you will be able to see them when the lights are on.

Here is an article from FishLore: Zebra Pleco Care - Size, Lifespan, TankMates, Breeding, Diet and Behavior

 

I agree that pH 7 should be fine for the cardinals and rams as long as your water is not too hard. Another interesting alternative catfish would be Rineloricaria lanceolata (whiptail catfish), I have some of these and they are much more active and visible during the day than any of the plecos I have. You may perhaps be thinking of the false or Colombian zebra pleco, L129, which is much less expensive and stays small, but is very nocturnal and elusive. I see mine twice a year.

 

As mentioned above, the 20 gallon tank really isn't large enough for the plecos. In addition to that, while I haven't kept them I've seen many posts from people who have, and they all pretty much agree that German Blue Rams struggle to thrive in temperatures below the low to mid-80's F. The cardinals would be okay at that temperature, but I'm not sure about the plecos.

 

Hi HobbyistForLife,

No offence, just saying it like it is, but if you don't know what to feed them, you aren't ready to keep them by a long shot.
Hypancistrus generally are carnivores that eat a little green matter.

You'd really need to know which species you are going to get and where it's from, Some Zebras are deep and fast moving water with high oxygenation, others are more shallow and slower moving water.

RO water isn't good for an aquarium unless you are remineralizing. It's purified water and devoid of nutrients, basically water, as a solvent. People use it to "build up" the water that they want, exactly as they want it, not in it's pure form and devoid of nutrients and minerals.

I can go on and on, just choosing not to. I beg of you to keep learning, cycle correctly, and be patient for the cycle to complete, Meanwhile read everything you can on the species you have interest in keeping and understand what can, and can't work together. The Amazon is a big place, there's very different water conditions in different parts of the river, and these species are not all found together throughout the Amazon.

Ideally you'd pick the one that you want the most, the specific type and geographical location, then find other species that compliment that location, and possibly even diet. mixing up fish that aren't naturally found together co-habitating is a recipe for disaster even if they come from the same river. you'll never keep everyone thriving, one or more will suffer and lack, in order of the other to thrive. And when we are discussing the costs of zebra plecos, it ain't cheap and a loss hurts.

Also going to say, I wish you good luck getting identified Zebra pleco females. Most places won't even sell idenitifed females.
Even the false zebra L173b is like a 60 dollar fish and barely resembles the Zebra L046, L098, L173 patterns.

 

Hello. I have discussed this tank in a different forum, but I want to see if you have some opinions on the stocking in this tank. I have recently started this tank. I added API Quick Start. I am thinking about adding pure ammonia to kick-start the cycling process. All the water parameters are at 0, as I added RO water to begin with. I have not conducted a water change as this was set up last Monday. The pH is at 7.0.

I have two chunks of driftwood. There is 2 sets of Dwarf Hairgrass, 2 Ruffled Swordplants (yes, I know these are too big, but for the time being) an unidentified plant I am going to call a weed, and Lobelia Cardinalis, or at least, that's what petsmart called it.
Black seachem sand, florite, 1 inch or so. Black and Green boxed lighting system designed for plants (it set me back $80.00, so I figure it's a good light). produces some heat too. I've got a suitable sponge filter running for a 20 gallon.

I want to stock 7 Cardinal Tetras, 1 Blue German Ram, and 1 Male Zebra Pleco with 2 Female Zebra Plecos.

My strongest concerns: I know that Cardinal Tetras and Blue German Rams really like Acidic water of 5.0-6.5, but Are Zebra Plecos really ok to go in the range of 5.0-6.0?? Most sources say 6.0-7.6, controversially. What should I feed them?
Give me the exact food so I can feed them to the right fish. I don't think Live food is a good idea for me sadly. Zebra Plecos, as in the standard Hypancistrus. Don't really care, as long as they're black and white stripes and healthy. I have a 5 gallon beta tank I think I could probably use as a quarantine tank. Here's my idea: I think I can also toss the beta in the 20 gallon so that I can use the 5 gallon as a temporary quarantine tank, but the pH is super debatable because of the cardinal tetras, and the Blue German Ram, and the Zebra pleco (actually the most alkaline preference). Diet will be intended as more protein related. Please give as much professional advice, I can't afford to lose any fish whatsoever. I have a month or so until the aquarium is ready. Can I just add the beta in now, and not add the ammonia? hahaha.

GBR and cardinals will do fine in any ph if the water is soft, in my opinion I believe that if you do not know what to do with your zebra plecos yet, you should hold them off for now. You should have a zebra pleco only tank. a 55 would be solid with at least 6-8.

 

Talking to pkr210 __ See, I disagree with that because there's a you tuber who claims that you need fish over head so the Zebra plecos will feel safer, and he has proof that he keeps tetras with them. AquaMalik or something like that I wouldn't keep much fewer than 10 in a 55, but I would use more powerful filtration. I am thinking that it is technically possible to keep them in a 20 gallon tank minimum with 4 like an article told me. I know plenty about Zebra Plecos (probably enough to successfully keep them alive and happy enough for a good deal of time), but because of the lack of rocks in my aquarium, I think I will try a bigger setup of 40 gallons in the future with these guys, yea I know somebody said something about that.

Talking to SparkyJones__ Okay. I have about a month before the cycle is complete. My tap water is so heavily chlorinated that I can smell it. I think it's a bad option. Don't you? RO water is cheap. Let's see, where else can I get water.... Does petco sell water? um. Where can I get non-RO water?
My pH is 5.0 or below in less than a week because of the driftwood. Too dang soft for Zebra plecos anyway. I'm going to stick to the Orinoco river basin and continue with the Cardinal Tetras, and the German Blue Ram maybe. It's not like I'm being impatient with the Water Cycle in the new tank, I fully intend to wait at least another month. My ammonia's on the rise, right on schedule. It's green on the test kit I have, so I can't tell where it's at. I might think about adding more of that Quickstart stuff.

Isn't 82-80 degree fahrenheit technically too warm for the plecos, like the temp for breeding? I think the norm is 78-82, something like that. I don't feel like frying the fish to death, considering the insane heat. This is very controversial, and I like it.

Hmm.
I really don't think it's okay to just say that all of these fish will do fine in a pH of 7.0. The cardinal tetras and German rams, they're supposed to be in softer water like, 4.0-6.0. I understand that the Zebra plecos will do just fine though. I am most definitely not thinking of the falso Columbian Zebra pleco. I WANT TO SEE THE STANDARD BLACK AND WHITE ZEBRA LIKE LINES, you know? Hypancistrus L046! the true one, you know? I honestly am very knowledgeable about basic aquarium keeping, so please don't bother telling me stuff like this pleco is from that part of the water, and this pleco is from that part of the river. I'm just trying to see if they are compatible, because technically, you can keep the pleco with Cardinal tetras even though they're part of different river systems! I also am very well aware of their habitat. I know a good amount of the basics because I do watch youtube and read basic articles. My mind is changed slightly. I'm only keeping the aquarium up for less than 3 years, so I think the Cardinal tetras are a good point. I also want the Blue German Ram. Of course I can start keeping these fish even if I don't know what to feed them yet, because the aquarium cycle isn't done yet and in that time I can figure out what to feed them. I really don't know what kind of water to use for the tank. Is there like, a nutrient additive I can use in the RO water? aren't the nutrients mainly for plants?

I have heard of Whiptail catfish and those species came to mind, but I thought they might be just too long for a 20 gallon. Maybe I should research these guys? They probably don't have the same diet as the Cardinal Tetras though.

Sparky Jones, I know basically most of the information in your post, but thanks for the stuff I didn't already know, which was just the fact that the false pleco is $60.00, and wasn't really the type of fish I was looking for anyway. But I might want to take a quick look at em, they look promising, nonetheless.

I didn't really have too much intention to breed Zebra plecos, but thanks a million for telling me most places won't sell id'd females.

New thought: can I just keep 1 Zebra pleco??

 

Talking to pkr210 __ See, I disagree with that because there's a you tuber who claims that you need fish over head so the Zebra plecos will feel safer, and he has proof that he keeps tetras with them. AquaMalik or something like that I wouldn't keep much fewer than 10 in a 55, but I would use more powerful filtration. I am thinking that it is technically possible to keep them in a 20 gallon tank minimum with 4 like an article told me. I know plenty about Zebra Plecos (probably enough to successfully keep them alive and happy enough for a good deal of time), but because of the lack of rocks in my aquarium, I think I will try a bigger setup of 40 gallons in the future with these guys, yea I know somebody said something about that.

Talking to SparkyJones__ Okay. I have about a month before the cycle is complete. My tap water is so heavily chlorinated that I can smell it. I think it's a bad option. Don't you? RO water is cheap. Let's see, where else can I get water.... Does petco sell water? um. Where can I get non-RO water?
My pH is 5.0 or below in less than a week because of the driftwood. Too dang soft for Zebra plecos anyway. I'm going to stick to the Orinoco river basin and continue with the Cardinal Tetras, and the German Blue Ram maybe. It's not like I'm being impatient with the Water Cycle in the new tank, I fully intend to wait at least another month. My ammonia's on the rise, right on schedule. It's green on the test kit I have, so I can't tell where it's at. I might think about adding more of that Quickstart stuff.

Isn't 82-80 degree fahrenheit technically too warm for the plecos, like the temp for breeding? I think the norm is 78-82, something like that. I don't feel like frying the fish to death, considering the insane heat. This is very controversial, and I like it.

Hmm.
I really don't think it's okay to just say that all of these fish will do fine in a pH of 7.0. The cardinal tetras and German rams, they're supposed to be in softer water like, 4.0-6.0. I understand that the Zebra plecos will do just fine though. I am most definitely not thinking of the falso Columbian Zebra pleco. I WANT TO SEE THE STANDARD BLACK AND WHITE ZEBRA LIKE LINES, you know? Hypancistrus L046! the true one, you know? I honestly am very knowledgeable about basic aquarium keeping, so please don't bother telling me stuff like this pleco is from that part of the water, and this pleco is from that part of the river. I'm just trying to see if they are compatible, because technically, you can keep the pleco with Cardinal tetras even though they're part of different river systems! I also am very well aware of their habitat. I know a good amount of the basics because I do watch youtube and read basic articles. My mind is changed slightly. I'm only keeping the aquarium up for less than 3 years, so I think the Cardinal tetras are a good point. I also want the Blue German Ram. Of course I can start keeping these fish even if I don't know what to feed them yet, because the aquarium cycle isn't done yet and in that time I can figure out what to feed them. I really don't know what kind of water to use for the tank. Is there like, a nutrient additive I can use in the RO water? aren't the nutrients mainly for plants?

I have heard of Whiptail catfish and those species came to mind, but I thought they might be just too long for a 20 gallon. Maybe I should research these guys? They probably don't have the same diet as the Cardinal Tetras though.

Sparky Jones, I know basically most of the information in your post, but thanks for the stuff I didn't already know, which was just the fact that the false pleco is $60.00, and wasn't really the type of fish I was looking for anyway. But I might want to take a quick look at em, they look promising, nonetheless.

I didn't really have too much intention to breed Zebra plecos, but thanks a million for telling me most places won't sell id'd females.

New thought: can I just keep 1 Zebra pleco??

I thought you were breeding the zebras so I was a bit confused so my apology for that,

I don't recommend chasing ph, the fish you have listed should do fine in an alkaline ph but maintain the hardness of the water in the tank.

Yes you can keep one zebra pleco with the stocking listed with the gbr and cardinals, but it might be a bit pushing. Zebra plecos and most plecos actually prefer warmer temperatures like rams and discus. That is why a lot of zebra pleco breeders keep their tanks around 83-87 to stimulate breeding with high flow. But with your tank, you should be fine maintaining a temperature of about 81-82

 

A fancy zebra pleco in a newly set up tank seems a likely recipe for early death to me.

As stated above, fish need minerals in their water that the RO process strips out. Please research this before moving forward. I hope to one day see your successful tank with a Zebra Pleco posted here. Take your time.

 

Talking to pkr210 __ See, I disagree with that because there's a you tuber who claims that you need fish over head so the Zebra plecos will feel safer, and he has proof that he keeps tetras with them. AquaMalik or something like that I wouldn't keep much fewer than 10 in a 55, but I would use more powerful filtration. I am thinking that it is technically possible to keep them in a 20 gallon tank minimum with 4 like an article told me. I know plenty about Zebra Plecos (probably enough to successfully keep them alive and happy enough for a good deal of time), but because of the lack of rocks in my aquarium, I think I will try a bigger setup of 40 gallons in the future with these guys, yea I know somebody said something about that.

Talking to SparkyJones__ Okay. I have about a month before the cycle is complete. My tap water is so heavily chlorinated that I can smell it. I think it's a bad option. Don't you? RO water is cheap. Let's see, where else can I get water.... Does petco sell water? um. Where can I get non-RO water?
My pH is 5.0 or below in less than a week because of the driftwood. Too dang soft for Zebra plecos anyway. I'm going to stick to the Orinoco river basin and continue with the Cardinal Tetras, and the German Blue Ram maybe. It's not like I'm being impatient with the Water Cycle in the new tank, I fully intend to wait at least another month. My ammonia's on the rise, right on schedule. It's green on the test kit I have, so I can't tell where it's at. I might think about adding more of that Quickstart stuff.

Isn't 82-80 degree fahrenheit technically too warm for the plecos, like the temp for breeding? I think the norm is 78-82, something like that. I don't feel like frying the fish to death, considering the insane heat. This is very controversial, and I like it.

Hmm.
I really don't think it's okay to just say that all of these fish will do fine in a pH of 7.0. The cardinal tetras and German rams, they're supposed to be in softer water like, 4.0-6.0. I understand that the Zebra plecos will do just fine though. I am most definitely not thinking of the falso Columbian Zebra pleco. I WANT TO SEE THE STANDARD BLACK AND WHITE ZEBRA LIKE LINES, you know? Hypancistrus L046! the true one, you know? I honestly am very knowledgeable about basic aquarium keeping, so please don't bother telling me stuff like this pleco is from that part of the water, and this pleco is from that part of the river. I'm just trying to see if they are compatible, because technically, you can keep the pleco with Cardinal tetras even though they're part of different river systems! I also am very well aware of their habitat. I know a good amount of the basics because I do watch youtube and read basic articles. My mind is changed slightly. I'm only keeping the aquarium up for less than 3 years, so I think the Cardinal tetras are a good point. I also want the Blue German Ram. Of course I can start keeping these fish even if I don't know what to feed them yet, because the aquarium cycle isn't done yet and in that time I can figure out what to feed them. I really don't know what kind of water to use for the tank. Is there like, a nutrient additive I can use in the RO water? aren't the nutrients mainly for plants?

I have heard of Whiptail catfish and those species came to mind, but I thought they might be just too long for a 20 gallon. Maybe I should research these guys? They probably don't have the same diet as the Cardinal Tetras though.

Sparky Jones, I know basically most of the information in your post, but thanks for the stuff I didn't already know, which was just the fact that the false pleco is $60.00, and wasn't really the type of fish I was looking for anyway. But I might want to take a quick look at em, they look promising, nonetheless.

I didn't really have too much intention to breed Zebra plecos, but thanks a million for telling me most places won't sell id'd females.

New thought: can I just keep 1 Zebra pleco??

Not sure on Youtubers and what works for them, I know there's some dude on there that keeps Guppies with his Zebra plecos, I'm sure "you can", I'm not so sure that "you should" with a fish that costly, that sensitive, and adding any form of competition to the tank besides their own species. Hard enough to get them, hard enough to get females too and get breeding happening, in my opinion.
But your money, your fish, your tank, appreciate you taking the time to read my post and consider the comments I made. Thank you. best of luck!

 

You are very welcome, SparkyJones. Thank you for your concerns. I was very eager to read any information I could get my hands on from Experienced or Knowledgeable aquarists, so I would have read all of these posts. KingOscar, do you have any sources on water changes? I would like to acquire knowledge on nutrient rich water. Are you sure there aren't nutrient additives that are available, which I can use if I need them? I'm concerned about the fact that my tap water is extraordinarily chlorine-rich.
Hey guys, don't mention Discus please, because my tank isn't big enough for them. You could have mentioned Rummy-nose Tetras instead, but technically, Discus are a bright example for temperature. Zebra plecos are easy to keep, I believe that 100%. The reasoning is because of everything I've learned so far. The problem is, is that my pH has tanked to below 5.0 on the pH in less than a week. Now, I never wanted to keep guppies with the Zebra pleco (once upon a time maybe, but out-ruled quickly lol), so I kept my goal of maintaining a tank with Cardinal Tetras and Zebra plecos. Both fish are controversially sensitive. However, I disagree that Zebra plecos are extraordinarily sensitive, but I wouldn't want to claim they are hardy specimens. I simply think they are for the Intermediate and determined fish keepers. Cardinal Tetras, on the other hand, I claim are extraordinarily sensitive because of the very soft water I've seen recommended for them (about 4.0-6.0). Why is pH not very important to people on this forum? I'm confused. Is every fish (aside from African Cichlids and Discus), capable of being kept in alkaline water?? Nope! I disagree. I think the pH matters quite a lot. This is because of the natural environment from which the fish are from. Now, if Cardinal Tetras are kept in 4.0-6.0 pH, I think it might be possible to keep all of the fish I want in a pH of 4.5-6.0, because my pH levels are insanely low. Perhaps, I don't want to keep the pH much below 5.0, so I'm going to keep the Cardinal Tetras at first, and wait some time before I get any zebra plecos. Now, I'm not going to toss fish into a newly set up aquarium. It's going to be cycled first. Of course You wouldn't put them in a non-cycled tank. (maybe I should try to keep a hardier species first, because I heard that Cardinal Tetras really need a long-established tank.)
King Oscar, please give me a link to the Nutrient rich water. If anybody else could point me out to some nutrient additives, I'd be happy. If, for some reason during my research on that I happen across the actual nutrients needed by fish, I'm going to look for bottles of pure stuff of those nutrients so I can add it to the RO water and keep a purely happy fish tank, with no diseases whatsoever.

New Idea: Will a fish store quarantine your new fish for you?? (seems like a good idea to me)

 

You are very welcome, SparkyJones. Thank you for your concerns. I was very eager to read any information I could get my hands on from Experienced or Knowledgeable aquarists, so I would have read all of these posts. KingOscar, do you have any sources on water changes? I would like to acquire knowledge on nutrient rich water. Are you sure there aren't nutrient additives that are available, which I can use if I need them? I'm concerned about the fact that my tap water is extraordinarily chlorine-rich.
Hey guys, don't mention Discus please, because my tank isn't big enough for them. You could have mentioned Rummy-nose Tetras instead, but technically, Discus are a bright example for temperature. Zebra plecos are easy to keep, I believe that 100%. The reasoning is because of everything I've learned so far. The problem is, is that my pH has tanked to below 5.0 on the pH in less than a week. Now, I never wanted to keep guppies with the Zebra pleco (once upon a time maybe, but out-ruled quickly lol), so I kept my goal of maintaining a tank with Cardinal Tetras and Zebra plecos. Both fish are controversially sensitive. However, I disagree that Zebra plecos are extraordinarily sensitive, but I wouldn't want to claim they are hardy specimens. I simply think they are for the Intermediate and determined fish keepers. Cardinal Tetras, on the other hand, I claim are extraordinarily sensitive because of the very soft water I've seen recommended for them (about 4.0-6.0). Why is pH not very important to people on this forum? I'm confused. Is every fish (aside from African Cichlids and Discus), capable of being kept in alkaline water?? Nope! I disagree. I think the pH matters quite a lot. This is because of the natural environment from which the fish are from. Now, if Cardinal Tetras are kept in 4.0-6.0 pH, I think it might be possible to keep all of the fish I want in a pH of 4.5-6.0, because my pH levels are insanely low. Perhaps, I don't want to keep the pH much below 5.0, so I'm going to keep the Cardinal Tetras at first, and wait some time before I get any zebra plecos. Now, I'm not going to toss fish into a newly set up aquarium. It's going to be cycled first. Of course You wouldn't put them in a non-cycled tank. (maybe I should try to keep a hardier species first, because I heard that Cardinal Tetras really need a long-established tank.)
King Oscar, please give me a link to the Nutrient rich water. If anybody else could point me out to some nutrient additives, I'd be happy. If, for some reason during my research on that I happen across the actual nutrients needed by fish, I'm going to look for bottles of pure stuff of those nutrients so I can add it to the RO water and keep a purely happy fish tank, with no diseases whatsoever.

New Idea: Will a fish store quarantine your new fish for you?? (seems like a good idea to me)

The reason why you do not chase for ph is that trying to change the ph can cause a ph crash and that is far more worse than trying to keep a soft water fish in harder water. A ph crash can kill livestock. Just keep it stable.

Cardinal tetras are not sensitive at all, lots of fish sold in the hobby can live in different water parameters if acclimated well. I have my cardinal tetras in ph of 7 and haven't lost a single one for months. I've seen a guy keep cardinals in ph of 8.2 and keep them for years.

No one mentioned you to keep discus in your tank, the reason why I brought up discus was because they are similar to zebra plecos and like temperature hot.

 

New thought — if your pH is 5.0 then your cycle may take a lot longer than a month …

I don’t think anyone said pH isn’t important , more than a consistent pH is important rather than yo yo’ing around whilst you tamper with it. You can buy remineraliser products like gh kh plus , you would have to play around with amounts until you get the tds you want. If your tap is heavily chlorinated why not just use something like prime ?