1st signs of ich! heeeeelp! 0.0! Help

Discussion in 'Guppy' started by Akari_32, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    my guppies are showing the 1st signs of ICH! they are rubbing up against the decorations and gravel. i dont actually see it yet, but it just started scratching this morning. what should i do?? i have Wide Spectrum Tonic and i have Jungle Fizz tabs for ich, fish lice, ect. which one would be the best right now?? please help me save my babies T_T i just got three new ones and i would like them all to live D=

    p.s.~ i do kno how the ich was introduced... and its all my fault... i have a bamboo plant that was in my previous tank that got infected with ich by some panda corries. i took the plant out and planted it in a pot and some how it ended up out side and got cooked. i brot it in and was messing with the leaves and then fed the fish, with out thinking to wash my hands.
     
  2. w

    w_boughner Valued Member Member

    dont med rais the temp to 86 f and do gravel vacs daily for two weeks this will get rid of it for sure and its free and nothing agenst meds but every time i used meds in the past ive had fish loss
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2010
  3. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    my heater is preset to 78, so i cant raise the temp T_T how much water should change out?
     




  4. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    I wouldnt blame yourself for whatever your fish may have :)

    I dont think that ich, being an aquatic parasite that cannot handle heat, wouldve survived very long outside in the hot dry air, although Im not really an expert on protozoan parasites

    sounds like it is likely ich or velvet, but I would definitely definitely not medicate your tank, especially as you caught it early. The above advice is very good, all I have to add is that if it is velvet, you should also turn off your aquarium lights because velvet actually contains chlorophyll to create energy like a plant does. If you have a planted tank you might still want to leave the lights on though

    looks like u ninja'd me :eek:, you might want to buy a new heater if thats the case, they can be pretty cheap at some larger pet stores. Also Id do 30% daily water changes, be sure to vacuum as much of the gravel as u can
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    velvet has a free-floating larval stage, tho right? theres nothing floating aroung in there besides fish and the occational snail. (i could be wrong tho)
     
  6. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    ich has a free floating stage too, this is when the parasite is vulnerable. Both are microscopic and so you wouldnt be able to see them with your naked eye, but theyre there. The idea is to kill of the free swimmers while theyre vulnerable. Raising the temperature, turning off the lights, and even adding salt make your tank much less hospitable for the free swimming parasites so they die off before they can reinfect a new host. However I wouldnt add salt.... too many species are sensitive to it and too much can go wrong... raising the temperature and vacuuming should be enough to take care of the disease if you can keep your water parameters in good shape so the fish can recover on their own
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    ooooh. well i cant do much for the temp, as my heater is the preset kind. i dont have anyone in the tank that would mind salt, tho (well, except the snails, but i dont like them much), all i have in there are guppies. should i got up to 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons (im doing 1/2 teaspoon per gallon right now). could i put the guppies in to a seperate tank (with new water) and salt the crap outta the 20 gallon (and do water changes and what-not)?
     
  8. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    I wouldnt every "salt the crap outta" a tank actually, again its one of those things that will just do more harm than good. And youre right, snails would probably not like the salt.... Im pretty sure you can pick up a decent heater for about 15-20 dollars at a decent chain store, but thats your choice I guess. I really do think that heat would be more effective than salt however. Ich is darn near invincible when it is attached to a fish, so the goal is to speed along the ich lifecycle which is accomplished by raising the temperature, then once the ich is free swimming, it dies off from the heat. If you are gonna move them to a new tank, make sure it has a decent filter and that you move some media from your established filter into the new one, but still do not exceed the dosage instructions... Also the "new water" idea probably wouldnt help much, you wouldnt eliminate much of the ich and you would probably stress out your fish more by moving them into new water parameters and such. The only reason I see to moving sick fish is if it is only one or two fish infected and they absolutely need treatment, then you move them to a quarantine tank with a good gilter and established filter media.

    To summarize, I would buy a new heater, and keep up the daily vacuuming/water changes
     
  9. A

    AlyeskaGirl Fishlore VIP Member

    I suggest you get a new heater. You not being able to raise the temp isn't a good thing when trying to get rid of ICH. I use the Marineland Stealth Pro. It's a great heater.

    Good luck!
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    not really salt the crap out of it, but go up to the next dose (1TBS/5 glallons) lol

    well, i was looking at other heaters, but it was the only one in the size range i needed that i liked, and i dont recall ever seeing an adjustable one at all (Petco, PetSmart and WalMart). i ended up paying about $20 for it. i ges i could move my betta in to the 10 gallon and give him the heater and buy a new one for the 20 gallon, because im getting payed for working with my mom for 2 days last week (im just gunna say that putting in acrylic windows isnt fun. neither is sunburn. but it pays $10 an hour!).... -plotting- if i do do that, how should i de-ich the heater?
     
  11. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    Ich is almost always present in the aquarium, it just isnt a problem until one of your fish's immune system becomes compromised for some reason, so you shouldnt have to worry about de-iching your heater. If youre moving all of your fish to the smaller tank, move the heater to. The heater should be able to raise the temp a little bit high because its heating a smaller volume of water, i would fill the smaller tank with some of your tank water too, that way the fish wont be too shocked when you move them. Again, buying a new heater would be a much better way to help out your little fish rather than moving them.

    Also I believe I picked up a "hydor theo" 100w for about $15 at my local petsmart. Its fully adjustable, submersible, and keeps my 20g wherever I need the temp to be.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    hmmmm.... those heaters seen to run at $25 here... crap. doesnt look like i'll get one of those (unless its the cheapest, but even then, i may not be able to...).

    i changed out 3 gallons of water today and kept the lights out all day except for feeding and changing the water. i'll do an other change on sunday, and suck out stuff from the gravel while im at it. and i washed my hands before i handled the new water (and before i fed Cornelious). anything else?

    EDIT~ also, should i put the syphon and water bucket in the dishwasher on the sanitize setting (no soap, just really, really hot water), or would that ruin the syphon, or just not help at all?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  13. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    I wouldnt wash any of that, you would probably just warp the plastic with the hot water.... and as I said the parasites probably wont live out of water. The disease is probably a result of excess stress or poor water conditions, what are your water parameters?
     
  14. w

    w_boughner Valued Member Member

    water changes arnt as important as vacuming the gravel. when the ich goes into the cyst stage they multiply in the gravel and thats when you want to remove them before they hatch to the free floating stage
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    honestly, i dont kno. i dont have a test kit, and my parents probly wont let me buy one, tho i will try next time i get them to go to the petstore (which isnt often.... -_-).

    anyway, i was asking because there are little white dots on the cylider part of the syphon, tho it could just be stuff from the last water change, but i just figured i'd ask.
     
  16. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    the white dots are probably just mineral residue left behind when the water evaporated, very unlikely to be ich. Also a test kit is very very important if you want to keep your fish healthy, without it you have no idea whats going on inside your tank and it could be full of deadly chemicals like ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. Even if all you can get is a cheap strip test, any test is better than no test IMO, although the API master kit is the most recommended test kit on this site.

    Also how often do you change your water?
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    dont worry, i dont need tellin', its my parents that need tellin' :mad: im luck to even have a heater D= altho, the last time i had PetSmart check my water, it was perfect (im not sure exactly what the lady ment by "perfect," but ok).

    and i try to change the water every week, but if i cant, than every 2 weeks (tho now its not way over stocked, so i wont be as worried if i miss a week [but not untill the current problem is fixed. i'll be doing it every other day at the moment, unless u suggest other wise])
     
  18. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    I generally dont trust a word of what the people tell me at the pet store, they might consider 50 nitrate to be "good" regardless of what species they hear youre keeping.... I know my strips come with a chart that has "safe" "stress" and "unsafe" ranges and I personally dont agree with any of them, but most pet store employees would probably just check to see if they fell into the designated ranges... If you do it weekly or at least bi-weekly I think your levels should be acceptable, definitely keep up the vacuuming up daily if you can, every other day is acceptable though, best of luck to your fish
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Akari_32

    Akari_32 Fishlore Legend Member

    i just got done suckin' up crap out of the gravel a little bit ago. i was surprized to see how much i missed tuesday ^_^'> i did just about 40% (i got about 4 1/2 gallons out) because i just couldnt leave all that gunk down there.... then i dosed it with WST, as told by my mom -sigh- she doesnt listen sometimes, but whatever. just a bit of help i ges lol

    i put the water bucket and syphon out side to dry in the sun and get un-ich-ified and wahsed my hands befor even going near the new water. i havent seen anyone scratching today (tho i probly just cursed myself... lol) so with any lick, its almost over!
     
  20. bass master

    bass master Well Known Member Member

    whats in wst? is it a malachite formalin mix? I definitely wouldnt have put this in with your fish :/ especially because they just got it... if it was a reoccuring case where temp/gravel vacuuming failed multiple times i would consider it.... but really I would stop dosing it... try to convince your mom that your only supposed to add one dosing or something... Also ich doesnt really go away so quickly usually, maybe the flicking was something else? or maybe theyre still infected, either way, keep doin what your doin for the next four days as long you continue to see no signs of infection (minus the WST). Best of luck
     




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