125g Clown Loach Restocking Gameplan

  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Nitrates:
I tested the tanks today. Main tank was around 40+ again after 5 days. Again, it's not surprising as I fed a lot to get rid of the Repashy. Additionally, the reading Friday might have be 50 or 60 so the huge water change could've just dropped the level to barely under 20.

I just did an 80% water change while listening to be there "Real Fish Talk" livestreams. The water change takes about two hours. I guess I can put aside time to do this twice a week.

QT:
I was considering moving the fish but now I should wait to get the nitrate numbers closer. Qt was between 15-20. I had 0.25 ammonia probably because I fed a lot of Repashy. Nitrite was 0.

Clown Loach battles:
Fir the first tine , I saw the 4 Loaches having dominace spats. More accurately, it's 3 out of the 4. The runt I described above doesnt participate. One by of the Loaches made the biting motions towards the runt, and the runt didn't respond and kept swimming by.

It looks like there's one that's clearly the most dominant. It's the Divers Den fish with the spot on her side. The lobe survivor Loach seems next in line. This one has spats with the alpha Loach and the third Divers Den Loach.

If youve never seen this, the fish get this faded color and they make biting motions towards the other Loach's head or side. They sometimes even seem to push each other. The vidro in this thread is an example:

Spawning?

The fish don't seem to really harm each other. I joke about moving them to the main tank as the alpha will lose to my Loach that's 3-4x the size of these Loaches. The post I just linked shows that the spats may still happen even if the fish are further down in my the hierarchy (which they clearly will be in the main tank).
 

Wraithen

Fishlore VIP
Messages
4,371
Reaction score
1,714
Points
198
Experience
3 years
Your water change shouldn't take that long. I think it take me 10 or 15 minutes to fill a 50 percent on my 180 using a bathroom faucet. Draining can be sped up with the help of a powerhead or submerged pump. Small "trash pumps" can also be used in line with wherever the water is going. When it's not ridiculous cold, mine goes into the front lawn.
 

Bradley Moles

Valued Member
Messages
149
Reaction score
23
Points
53
Any thought into a centerpiece blood parrot or do you think that will take up too much of your other guys space when it becomes full grown?
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Wetspot Order:
I decided to type this out to figure out what exactly I'm going to place in this Wetspot order. After typing most of it out, I think I finally did get my order figured out and can adjust it based on a few factors I'll have to figure out by talking to them about my order.

I think I'm going to wait until Friday to order just in case Albino Milleniums pop up there or at Imperial Tropicals, though I suppose I could just ask.

As I mentioned, another issue is deciding on hatchetfish but I made a post in the hatchetfish forum to help me decide. I think I'm going with ten Spotfins. They aren't my favorite fish but they are a unique fish: in terms of the hatchetfish shape and they are one of like 3-4 fish choices to utilize that part of the tank.

How many fish to get at once and which ones:
I think that's the hardest part to decide right now. On the one hand, the more I order, the more cost effective is the shipping price. Obviously, I have to factor in the QT tank as I've mentioned before.

Some other factors include leaving enough fish to purchase that one more order is still cost effective. Also, since I may order from liveaquaria again or Imperial Tropicals, I need to consider that the fish should be available there.

Albino Milleniums:
I'm looking to add probably two males. I already have females, so I'd get two females with those. I also need three additional females to balance out my 4 males, 1 female ratio on my Dorityi. (I still have to lament that the Imperial Tropicals 3 female, 1 male breeder back was perfect).

Wetspot for sures:
1x Anostomus Anostomus
as no local stores have it and liveaquaria is sold out.
10xSpotfin Hatchetfish (these aren't on Liveaquaria and my LFS don't have it)

Likely:
2x pair of Millenium rainbowfish
Wetspot has these for $24 a pair. That's cheaper than Imperial, but I would/probably could get then there). I want to add more rainbowfish and I love the red of the males).

Rummynose:
I posted this Wetspot stock before:
Rummynose Tetra Hemigrammus bleheri Small (1"+ to 1.5") TR $3.00
Rummynose Tetra Hemigrammus bleheri "Colombia" Small (1"+ to 1.5") WILD $3.00
Rummynose Tetra Peru Petitella georgiae Small (1"+ to 1.5") WILD $3.00

I guess the bleheri are better as their red extends past the gills. You have to order at least 6 so I think I'd fulfil my "Noah's ark" tendencies by getting 6x the wild bleheri and 6x the tank raised

6 min, 8+ are the recommended numbers for these, and more are said to be better. I think 12 schooling would look good in my tank. As I won't be able to discern individual, which is something I like to do, I'll like they supposedly will school tightly. The shoal will be like a unit for me to observe

Panda Garra:
One is supposed to be fine but 3-4 is better. These are good value as I've calculated in other posts ($21 vs $13 @Wetspot)
I'm debating 3-5 this purchase. I can get these from the LFS later if I get the Albino Milleniums from somewhere that doesn't have them.

Cherry Barbs:
I want to get a few of these as I liked them. I used to have them and want to bring them back. These are common fish so I can get them anywhere, including Imperial Tropicals. I guess by typing this out, I convinced myself not to put this in this order. I can also Noahs ark these by mixing in albino and or long fin ones as they will school together bring the same species. (Wetspot only had regular and I may not get the ratio I want as they say they don't guarantee sex but they also say they'll try to take into account what you want. At an LFS or Imperial, I'd have better options).

(Cherry Barb's are often described as very loosely shoaling. They want others around and the males will spar with each other but they will supposedly be found often wandering off on their own) . You would think I'd remember but I don't remember what mine did. I think what when the .got down to three members they stayed together. Eventually, I was left with one female and she had some seim bladder disorder. I was convinced to euthanize her. Now Ive read I did it wrong with the ice method but I was told then that was a good way.)

Upside down Catfish:
(Synodontis nigriventris
$6 Wetspot vs $8.99 liveaquaria and I don't know how much here but definitely more than those two prices)
I'm attracted to these as they are a bit of an oddball fish. I read they can live 20+ years though I think mine lived like 10 years (can't remember exactly dates but I remember I moved it over to my current place and it died a few years later). I'd like to get another fish that has the potential of a long lifespan.

The clown Loaches won't use up the caves as they'll likely crown into the one the big ones already use. Cherry Barb's might swim in but no other fish will use. I think upside down Catfish will use those spaces and possibly also use space under the sponge filters.

These fish are pretty common so I could likely find them at a LFS.

Having it not having them in the QT probably isn't going to overload things or not. I guess I'll see how much they add to shipping costs.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Wraithen said:
Your water change shouldn't take that long. I think it take me 10 or 15 minutes to fill a 50 percent on my 180 using a bathroom faucet. Draining can be sped up with the help of a powerhead or submerged pump. Small "trash pumps" can also be used in line with wherever the water is going. When it's not ridiculous cold, mine goes into the front lawn.
Ive sped up the draining by also using a regular syphon hose as I can have it drain right into the sink. I serviced three small sponges. If I'm servicing the big sponges, I usually don't need to speed up the drainage as the time and water I use to service them usually is enough that the tank has enough time to drain to where I want it.

Filling is directly from the faucet using the python. I blame the new water saving faucets. I see a massive difference compared to the old faucet I have in the second bathroom.

If I were in a rush, I'd make the effort to fill up the 5 gallon bucket in the tub. Adding a few manual fills would probably sifnifisignif speed things up. When I'm not pressed for time, like today, I just let it fill since I'm lazy and would rather just sit around and wait for the fill.

I should time how quickly I can drain and fill. When I'm busier, I should do the idea of doing a sponge intake filter service on one change. The other change should be a pure speed change.

Bradley Moles said:
Any thought into a centerpiece blood parrot or do you think that will take up too much of your other guys space when it becomes full grown?
That could work but for this tank I don't want any other large fish. The pleco had too big of a bioload. I'd rather have more little fish them adding a blood parrot.

I did consider going with 3-5 Archerfish and ditching all these smaller fish.

I think I'm set on having a bunch if smaller species as it will give me a lot of new things to look at. It will be a contrast to.just having 4 fish to look at (who also didn't do much).
 

Wraithen

Fishlore VIP
Messages
4,371
Reaction score
1,714
Points
198
Experience
3 years
I know my 180 is still new, but I agree cardeater. I've got 8 kuhli loaches, a mess of nerites and amanos, 3 african butterfly cichlids, 2 african butterfly fish, and 7, soon to be 6, bloodfin tetras. Eventually my plants will over run the tank, but even with that light stocking, I see activity everywhere. Big fish are really cool, but for my chilling spot, I think I'm keen on filling it with smaller fish, at least for the foreseeable future.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Of course Diver's Den has to tempt me:


That doesn't help my ratio though. I end up with an extra male. If I'm going to order from Wetspot, I can just get two pairs of Millenium Reds and not be up an extra mail.

I'm not sure if there's any pattern to Divers Den. Last time they had these up about six weeks ago, a bunch of rainbowfish popped up soon after. I'd probably order the albino millenium if they pop up again, especially as the set they had up was 3 females, two males.

Repashy:
I used up what I had left. After feeding it exclusively in the QT tank, I now realize it does dirty the tank more than other foods. I heard this mentioned by either Cory or Joel in a live stream.

I still like the stuff and as much as RD criticized it on MFK, he said it had certain uses for fish that may be harder to feed pellets too: I believe the hillstream Loach was an example, but I could be off.

It should work well for the panda garra and Anostomus. Despite polluting the water, it holds up well for my common pleco to have something to graze on.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
White mark:
There's like a white Mark or dot on one of the rainbowfish's mouth. I think he might have just damaged it eating rapashy or something. I can't get a pic as the rainbowfish move around too much. I was Looking at the milleniums on Diver's Den, and it looks like twoight have the same thing.

The top two fish if you zoom in. I think mine looks similar. It happened in last day or so as I didn't notice it before.



I guess it gives me a reason to keep them in here just to see if anything changes. I can also control the water parameters better here. Nitrates are easy to keep low by just changing water everyday. I'll try using stress coat to declorinate tomorrow. I already did a 50% water change a few hours ago.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
20 ppm nitrates main:
It was good not to see the red in the test tube.

It's helpful to keep this log as I thought I water changed Monday but I realized it was Tuesday when I looked at my previous posts.

I did the largest change I've done as the pleco was relaxed: 90%.

Draining with python and regular syphon draining into the sink took about 25 mins. Filling is what takes forever. It's been going for 50 mins and it's still not done. It takes about 55-60 mins to refill after a 90% change.

Again, I'm too lazy to go fill buckets up in the tub or I guess I could speed it up.

QT:
I'm water changing that tank and adding Stress Coat. This would be a perfect time to move them over but I want to make sure there is no problem with the rainbowfish's mouth.

Trip:
I may be going out of town next week so I'm going to try to move the fish over tomorrow so I can monitor them.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Sold out:
I checked the new Wetspot list. Those Spotfin Hatchetfish are gone.

I suppose it's good timing in case I do leave town for a week .

I also can still place a large order of millMille rainbowfish, rummynose, Anostomus, and panda garra.

I'll still hoping albino rainbowfish show up again on Imperial Tropicals, Wetspot or Divers Den.

Tubifex worms:
I tried giving more Hikari frozrn tubifex worms. This seems to be the least favorite frozrn foid for the QT tank. The Loaches like it but the rainbowfish don't like it. They ate some but there's a bunch floating around still, twenty minutes later.

I only put 1 cube bloodworms and one cube tubifex. If I put 3 cubes bloodworms or brine shrimp, they finish it quickly.

Ammonia cycle:
If I don't go on the trip, I might just prepare the QT for a bigger load by dosing Ammonia after I move the fish to the main tank.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Pleco scared clown Loach:
I put some food in as the pleco was hungry as I haven't been putting out the large amounts of Repashy. I think the clown Loaches were hungry as I saw the alpha clown come out to feed. She usually never comes out when the lights are on.

The pleco is being aggressive with them, I'm guessing because of the food. The big alpha Loach got scared and swam to the other side if the tank. She found safety in this plastic plant.

I saw another Loach come out and pleco chased them back into their cave.

I guess I should make some more Repashy. When I leave out the big pieces, I don't see the pleco as aggressive.

IMG_20180608_190848.jpg
IMG_20180608_185850.jpg
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
The clowns are fine in the main tank. I was watching them with the lights out. It just seems if there's some food around, the pleco gets aggressive if anyone is near him. Wraithen speculated on this as being the cause of a previous incident. Pleco definitely does not bully them a lot as they are usually out and undisturbed when the lights are out.

QT rainbowfish mouth:
I can't decide if there's actually something different with one of their mouths or if I'm just now noticing something.


I think I may be imagining a problem similar to when I thought I saw a new spot on one of the clown Loaches. I looked back at the Diver's den pictipic and I think the slight variation in this fish's mouth might be the same in the picture.

Vacation:
This is probably what's making me anxious and possibly noticing a problem that's probably not there. This happened with me watching the pleco right before I left last time. I was worried about a white thing that I was told was just a fatty deposit. It wasn't a problem as pleco is fine 6 weeks later.

If I don't go anywhere I can just leave these guys in this tank just to be sure. I might leave Monday for 4-5 days. I wanted to move them over but now I'm not sure.

I can have sonsome feed or not feed them but the person can't change the water. I guess I can just leave them in here and have them fed twice in 4-5 days so as not to pollute the water.

I guess that's probably the best move. Even if they are completely fine, they could develop an issue in the main tank just from moving them. I would've been better moving them early in the week and I'd know by now if there was a problem. It seems like a bad idea to move them a day or two before leaving.

Edit:
For the record, the clown Loaches are completely fine in the QT. There likely isn't a problem as they should be the ones with a problem and they show no issues.
 

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,058
Reaction score
9,022
Points
608
Experience
2 years
I would even let them go without food for the whole time you're away. They'll be fine without food for 5 days, and this way you'll be helping the water stay as clean as possible. Just do a large change before you leave and when you get back.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
I ended up going out of town Sunday and I arrive back this morning.

Sunday:
On the QT, I did a 80% water change. I later changed small 10% amounts as I saw fish poo on the bottom and didn't want it to marinate there for 5 days.

My mom kept complaining about the fish being hungry. I had her defrost 2 cubes of brine shrimp and she gave that Wednesday (they ate Sunday evening). I knew I was gonna be back today so I told her to put two more cubes Thursday as I planned on water changing when I got home.

Tests:
QT was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. I had trouble reading nitrate but I was probably 20. Definitely not 40.

Main tank nitrates were 20. My mom doesn't feed that much so waste levels rise slower when I'm not here. I can be tell pleco was hungry as he had the usual algae spots completly trimmed.

I'm filling up the tank now from a 85% water change. I serviced most of the sponges except the double stack. I'll do that Sunday.

Tap water rinse:
I left the double sponge as I decided to rinse the Aquaclear 110 sponge under tap water. I haven't serviced it in 6 weeks. Sponge still wasn't rinsing clean in the bucket so I just ran it under tap water. There more than enough bio media area going on that I'm.not worried about a mini cycles. Id rather get the sponge completely clean so the matrix and ceramic rings stay clean.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Spot:
I think I noticed a spot like I saw on the other clown Loach. It was like the one I noticed on another Loach but then I realized it had always been there as it was on the liveaquaria picture.

I don't know if I just never noticed this before on this other Loach. I probably am more observant since I haven't seem seen in 5 days. I can't see it on the liveawlivea picture but it smaller than the one I can see on the other fish.



Rainbowfish:
The big ones mouth looks the same. Whatever I think I noticed there ilikely nothing and similarly might have always been there.

They had great color this afternoon, a few hours after the water change.

Another trip:
They'll probably be in quarantine another week. I'm likely leaving again Sunday night and returning Saturday morning. I'll probably just have them fed 2-3 cubes on Wednesday.
 

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,058
Reaction score
9,022
Points
608
Experience
2 years
I do the same thing with my mechanical media, if I'm not just replacing it. Tap water is fine for mechanical media as long as you have separate biomedia (that isn't rinsed in tap).

Glad your fish did well while you were out of town!
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
TexasDomer said:
I do the same thing with my mechanical media, if I'm not just replacing it. Tap water is fine for mechanical media as long as you have separate biomedia (that isn't rinsed in tap).

Glad your fish did well while you were out of town!
Thanks. I'm away again. Subday, I did a huge water change (85%+) on the main tank. I did 75% on QT and then I did another 20% to suction up some poop that I saw when I was ready to leave.

This trip is one day longer but they should be fine. I told my mom to give 2 cubes or frozen mysis Wednesday. I might bump it up to three. Then, I told her to drop a small cube of Repashy on Friday. Ill be back Saturday morning.

Assuming everything is fine, I'll watch them for 2-3 days and then move them over.

I'm not sure when I'm restocking. I may go away July 4th week so I won't want to have a bunch of fish in QT.

Bigger Loaches:
Saw this on Liveaquaria today. It's probably too much for that size. I do like oddball one.

https://m.liveaquaria.com/divers-den/product/411850/clown-loach-group-of-3
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
QT 6 days:
I was tired after a 16+ hour drive but made sure to check on things before I went to bed.

The nitrates looks about 20. Definitely didn't look like 40ppm but may have been slightly darker than 20.

They were super hungry. I dropped in NLS and they ate it so fast. I had even dropped what I thought was a little too much.

I did an 80% water change. I went to sleep and just gave them some thawed daphnia. The rainbowfish colors look really good. I'll look them over more later but they all look like they are ready for the move

Pleco Cave:
The pleco has his head in that clown Loach cave
The alpha Loach is also in the cave

I've observed the other two Loaches swimming out in the light and hiding in several other places as there's no room with the pleco and big Loach in that cave.

Pleco probably was hungry so I dipped a bunch of water in by the cave.

I plan on making Repashy later after I treat the water and do a water change.

I did get to look at the other two Loaches since they are not in the cave. I worry about them but now that I have a better look, I think they are fine.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter

Cardeater

Valued Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
137
Points
78
Experience
More than 10 years
Wetspot:
Just looked over their stock. It looks like the one hatchetfish I was considering actually is sold out this time.

I'll figure out what I'm doing in the next few days. I might be doing that July 4 5 day trip so I have to factor that in when deciding what to buy.

Imperial Tropicals:
Earlier in the week, I got an email from them saying panda garra are now in stock. 1.25" are $11 each in a 5 pack. I really wish they get the Albino Milleniums restocked.
 
Toggle Sidebar

Aquarium Calculator

Follow FishLore!





Top Bottom