120 Gallon Planted Discus Tank

RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #161
And so it begins...


yRMCHcW.jpg
 
ImpairedFish
  • #162
And so it begins...


yRMCHcW.jpg
Wish I would've just spent the extra cash and got one of those instead of my Marineland, not knocking my Marineland but their customer support blows...
 
86 ssinit
  • #163
Ok is that for a different tank? Because that’s way to small for a 110.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #164
Wish I would've just spent the extra cash and got one of those instead of my Marineland, not knocking my Marineland but their customer support blows...

I was an Eheim guy until I had to consider a much bigger bio load. I wouldn't use anything else. The 406 is sublime.

Ok is that for a different tank? Because that’s way to small for a 110.

Yup. Smaller 50G came brought out of retirement to ease the violence.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #165
Step 2: The good news and bad news...

My new discus arrived safely but in poor condition. Multiple tears in his finnage and frayed all other. What looks like ammonia burns that has eroded his slime coat. Also his fins are clamped tightly.

I've adjusted the light of the second pic to show the damage/burn during transport. Which should show up as the the red-ish patch/area on the side of the body :inpain:


p7BR1wg.jpg

11AnlOv.jpg

His first move around the aquarium after spending a couple of hours in the corner.

The good news is that Agnus, who has never spawned started discus twerking almost immediately. After he moved from one point to the next there she was, doing the discus dance. I've never seen her do this. and although I know she's a female via vent her she's remained quite placid. As a consequence, I'm assuming he is actually a he. Which reminds me... I need to name him.

Fingers crossed that the damage done via shipping isn't permanent

I'm waiting to see him flare to get a true idea of his shape.
 
FinalFins
  • #166
Who did you buy from?

It looks slightly beaky to me
 
ImpairedFish
  • #167
He looks like he's been through the ringer, I'd name him Scarface
 
jake37
  • #168
You should contact the seller just in case he has serious damage.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #169
Who did you buy from?

It looks slightly beaky to me

Stendker import. He looks more traumatized than beaky to me but with every fin being clammped it's hard to gauge. Still I figured it best to post and show every stage of the journey.

He looks like he's been through the ringer, I'd name him Scarface

I already have a male called Scar. So how about "Face."

?
You should contact the seller just in case he has serious damage.

I'm hoping it's just cosmetic

He's still acclimating his eyes are more black than red but I'll update as soon as he's settled.
 
jake37
  • #170
It is a very nice looking fish. Hopefully he perks up. As for name - i'd call him blue because well he looks blue !
 
ImpairedFish
  • #171
Stendker import. He looks more traumatized than beaky to me but with every fin being clammped it's hard to gauge. Still I figured it best to post and show every stage of the journey.



I already have a male called Scar. So how about "Face."

?


I'm hoping it's just cosmetic

He's still acclimating his eyes are more black than red but I'll update as soon as he's settled.
You could call him Montana? Tony Montana aka Scarface
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #172
It is a very nice looking fish. Hopefully he perks up. As for name - i'd call him blue because well he looks blue !

"Blue" & "Face" or Possibly "Blueface" lol. That's a good suggestion jake37 Hopefully we get a few more.

Edit ImpairedFish Montana sounds good too lol
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #173
Step 3: Violence isn't always the answer, until it is.

My pair "Bulla and Dusty" have started spawning courtship which as you know makes them supper aggressive to any and everything. I wasn't expecting this for at least a week?!?! With the new guy "Monatana" (shout out to ImpairedFish for the naming.) not arriving in the best shape, I've decided to bring things forward.


ojedsJW.gif


Could someone let me know if this ^ is actually playing.
 
FinalFins
  • #174
Not playing
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #175
How about now?
 
ImpairedFish
  • #176
Looks like Montana is throwing out that white girl for the other fish
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #177
Phase 4: Conditioning


As the violence continues. There's an odd but also majestic thing about cichlids fighting. From apistos to mabunas and every species in between. The dispalys, the sizing up, the "fin slapping" (I think it's called) the change in colours, and of course the flaring. Obviously it's not ideal but also par for the natural course I guess.
 
jake37
  • #178
What is the new fishes in the bag. Also with regards to fighting - fin slapping i call bickering for control; when my angels actually fight one usually ends up dead.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #179
What is the new fishes in the bag. Also with regards to fighting - fin slapping i call bickering for control; when my angels actually fight one usually ends up dead.

I think angels are know to be one of the more aggressive cichlids. Most recommend you don't keep them with discus because of this. Discus don't, at least from what I understand, fight to the death.

The fish in the bag is a new discus (post 167.) A new male, the same size as the resident dominant male. Resulting in a spike in fights.
 
86 ssinit
  • #180
So in the video. When the smoke clears is that Montana in the front. If so wow he looks great! Great looking discus luv the long fins.
First alert I’ve gotten on this thread in over a week. What did the breeder say about his arrival condition?
 
jake37
  • #181
I'm still confused by the video - what are all the little fishes swimming around the discus ? I know you have black neon but these look like hundreds.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #182
So in the video. When the smoke clears is that Montana in the front. If so wow he looks great! Great looking discus luv the long fins.
First alert I’ve gotten on this thread in over a week. What did the breeder say about his arrival condition?

Yup that's him I didn't complain to the breeder or even enquire about the shipping. He arrived "damaged" but safe and the communication between myself and the importer has always been good. I'm guessing the size and the waste produced during shipping is to blame more so than anything they did themselves. Also, his size is actually larger than what I purchased. He was sold at 12cm and he's clearly around 14cm from what I measured, so I saved close to £150

I think the alert system is acting up.

I'm still confused by the video - what are all the little fishes swimming around the discus ? I know you have black neon but these look like hundreds.

My apologies jake37 when you said "bag" I confused the question. That's actually a fine net and live brine shrimp. Live food to get the discus feeling frisky
 
86 ssinit
  • #183
Lol yeah I was pretty confused buy the bag thing too.

That’s a good deal 14 cm. Had to redo that to about 5.5 inch’s. He looks bigger in the pictures. Even with his fins closed he looks great. Good luck with him.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #184
Lol yeah I was pretty confused buy the bag thing too.

That’s a good deal 14 cm. Had to redo that to about 5.5 inch’s. He looks bigger in the pictures. Even with his fins closed he looks great. Good luck with him.

He's eating vigorously, his fins have healed, one of the females refuses to leave his side, and his ammonia burns are gone.

I will try get a decent picture of him asap. And as always, I appreciate the well wishes
 
jake37
  • #185
Sounds like one healthy fish; that's pretty fast healing. Did you pick a name for him ?
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #186
So I've had a really bad turn of events this week. I damaged Bulla's (the spawning female's) gills by mistake and so phase 5 and everything else is on hold.

20 days later I think he looks a lot better. It took an absolute age to get just 1 useable (not blurred) pic.


jGbOwyF.jpg

Forced into Phase 5


PWBSczH.jpg
 
jmaldo
  • #187

It took an absolute age to get just 1 useable (not blurred) pic.
LOL, been there for sure, hundreds of pics to get a good one.
But have to admit when you finally get a good pic...
Beautiful!

And now the fun/frustration begins. Hopefully, you'll have better success than I did with my pairs.

Good Luck!
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #188
LOL, been there for sure, hundreds of pics to get a good one.
But have to admit when you finally get a good pic...
Beautiful!

And now the fun/frustration begins. Hopefully, you'll have better success than I did with my pairs.

Good Luck!

I appreciate the kind words jmaldo

I'm not sure they're even fertilized but they haven't been eaten which is some progress in and of itself. I haven't had a spawn/eggs last more than a few hours and we're approaching 24 hours so I'm curious to see how this plays out.

After my accident with Bulla (spawning female) I decided to the best course of action was to do, well, nothing. I realized (with the help of FL alum on another site) that the cause was the temperature fluctuation. My tank temp is 28C via an inline and traditional heater. In short, the accident happened because I change /measure temp my water with a temp pen and despite not needing its batteries changed for some time, the pen gave a false reading. And I dropped the temp from 28 to 24C / 75F.

It wasn't until I checked the pen that I realized it was stuck on a reading but at an angle the LCD screen was going haywire. And so I bought a more reliable calibrated pen


O1RtR6l.jpg

NaPhsQy.jpg

Anyway as she healed Bulla came back into breeding mode and the violence that led to is another story. I mean, I've seen cichlids fight, from apistos to mbunas but nothing compares to these two makes locking horns. They uprooted every plant and made it look like the aquarium had it's own mini cyclone. Both were badly bruised and even when I literally put my hand in to separate them, they doge me, and go back at it relentlessly. Forcing me convert the old 55 I used as Qt... I always spray paint my background and thankfully, even though the 55 has had a painted background for years, nail polish remover did the job.


sb1mue1.jpg

They spawned late last week in their new home but none of the cluster was viable... More on that later

Which left monty going around flexing at everything from his own reflection, to ammanos, to, cories and every passing dead leaf being carried by the flow. Saying that he's waiting on a fight is an understatement.

His colour changes depending on his position in the tank.


3ELE9eD.jpg

u6TWZEu.jpg
 
jmaldo
  • #189
Good catch.
I had a similar problem awhile back. I noticed the temp read-out on the display was low. So I adjusted the heater higher, a few days later same thing. Now thinking I may have a heater going bad.
Then on tank maintenance day noticed the different temps in my tanks with my hands. The LCD with probes were all reading fine, but the water felt warmer/cooler in some tanks, all should be 78'. Checked the tanks with a infrared temperature gun. Sure enough all the tanks were off by a few degrees. And 8' degrees warmer in the original problem tank. Since switched to other thermometers. All is well.

Thanks, for sharing.
 
jake37
  • #190
I always use three different sources for temps so if one is broken the other two are correct
-
I have these lcd strips on the tank; the read out from the heater itself and a probe i sometimes use.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #191
Good catch.
I had a similar problem awhile back. I noticed the temp read-out on the display was low. So I adjusted the heater higher, a few days later same thing. Now thinking I may have a heater going bad.
Then on tank maintenance day noticed the different temps in my tanks with my hands. The LCD with probes were all reading fine, but the water felt warmer/cooler in some tanks, all should be 78'. Checked the tanks with a infrared temperature gun. Sure enough all the tanks were off by a few degrees. And 8' degrees warmer in the original problem tank. Since switched to other thermometers. All is well.

Thanks, for sharing.
I always use three different sources for temps so if one is broken the other two are correct
-
I have these lcd strips on the tank; the read out from the heater itself and a probe i sometimes use.

It's crazy how exacting you need to be with this species. I use a digital thermometer (with Duracell batteries) calibrated on the traditional mercury. I'm guessing with the temp fluctuating slightly in the UK, they were being put through their paces because the battery should have been good for months...

If you look closely you can still see slight damage on her gill in the spawn pic above but thankfully it's nothing like it was when the damage first happened.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #192
Almost a month since my last update.

Everything is ok with the discus but unfortunately I had to give 27 black neons away. I started losing 1-2 every few days. I did the normal tests and the only fluctuation I could find was temp. A slight change from 28-28.5C during our mini heat wave seems to be the issue.

A fellow discus keeper confirmed that he started losing some once his temp spiked a little too from 28 -29C. Curiously the temp spike didn't last more than a day or two but it seems 28C is their upper limit. Beyond that they seem to get stressed.

And so... I'm in the market for a compatible tetra again. Hope everyone is ok during these weird times.
 
jake37
  • #193
It seems odd they would die if the temp went from 28 to 28.5 for a short period however it might be more likely that 28c is in general too warm for them so over long period of time they slowly die or it might not be temp related at all.
 
jmaldo
  • #194
Hmm..
Interesting, since they are highly recommended tank mates for Discus. I keep mine @ 84'
I'll be watching.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #195
It seems odd they would die if the temp went from 28 to 28.5 for a short period however it might be more likely that 28c is in general too warm for them so over long period of time they slowly die or it might not be temp related at all.

Every test I ran came back the same. From PH through to GH/KH I even used two different branded liquid tests for Nitrite and ammonia but the only thing that had changed was the temp. I'm thinking 28 was their upper limit and beyond that caused the losses.
 
jake37
  • #196
Did you notice if any of them were gasping. I wonder if there is an oxygen issue. Do you have anything in your tank that injects surface movement or current (power head, sponge filter, ...)

Every test I ran came back the same. From PH through to GH/KH I even used two different branded liquid tests for Nitrite and ammonia but the only thing that had changed was the temp. I'm thinking 28 was their upper limit and beyond that caused the losses.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #197
Did you notice if any of them were gasping. I wonder if there is an oxygen issue. Do you have anything in your tank that injects surface movement or current (power head, sponge filter, ...)

About a third of the tank is dedicated to surface tension. That may sound excessive but given that there;s less oxygen at warmer temps... I've never seen any gasping. In fact, prior to the temp fluctuating the neons were spawn dancing and fighting. There were never any outward signs of stress and the discus gave up chasing them a day or two after they were introduced.

Given that antoher discus keeper started losing his black neons with a slight change from 28-29C at the exact same time... He had 30+ and only has 11 left.

So arranged to re-home them earlier this week and let them go today. Something I didn't take lightly as discus need dithers imo.
 
86 ssinit
  • #198
Yes a lot of fish can’t handle the heat. When I first started regular neons were the go to fish. But now it’s understood they can’t take the heat. What I have is rams 10 blue gold and the electric blue. Even these will only live about 2 years. Another good fish is sae. There peaceful dart around a lot and will eat algae.
 
RollaPear
  • Thread Starter
  • #199
Yes a lot of fish can’t handle the heat. When I first started regular neons were the go to fish. But now it’s understood they can’t take the heat. What I have is rams 10 blue gold and the electric blue. Even these will only live about 2 years. Another good fish is sae. There peaceful dart around a lot and will eat algae.

Discus being more of a tight rope the first thing I did was test everything... But from talking to others it seems going above 28C causes losses with that species. I like rams but prefer apistos. I met a discus keeper who haz Agz with his discus with no problems.

I'm looking into Ember tetra and Harlequin Rasboras but I'm not opposed to cardinals if they don't pan out in terms of required temps.

On another note, I'm really interested to see how your new tank progresses.
 
jake37
  • #200
I just purchased some gold a. apistogramma to keep with my gold ram. I'll take pictures when they get older. I don't keep my tank as warm as a discus tank - i fluctuate between 79 and 82. I've had this ram for 5 months (his mate died after a power outage) but it was already sexually mature when i purchase him so i guess he is getting some age for a ram. He is in the tank where i spotted some sterbai fry the other day.
-
The thing is that i would expect keeping the apistogramma at 84-86 would shorten their lives by quite a bit though they are longer lived in general than rams.
-
I'll probably pick up another female gold ram one of these days - right now shipping is too expensive for them - esp for a single fish and no one who has other fishes i'm looking for also have female gold rams - just males.
--
I just can't believe that keeping a neon black cardinal is fine at 28 but a few hours at 28.5 would suddenly kill it - i can believe that keeping it at 28 24/7 would shorten the life span quite a bit and if you and your friend had purchased them at the same time from the same source they were near the end of their expectancy. I mean we treat ick and other things at significantly higher temps for short periods (order of week) and these sort of fishes will tolerate such heat for more than a few hours.
 

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