120 Gallon Planted Discus Tank

You know? Sometimes less is more. I get how the discus breeder is against planted tanks, it's a common feeling among discus breeders. It's especially as they mature (grow up) that a bare-bottom tank is recommended. But a little bit of plant and a thin layer of sand is usually agreed upon as adults. A lot of ppl use pots to plant their bigger plants in such as sword or crypt bunches. I prefer swords because they are indigenous to South America.
The key to raising nice discus is clean fresh water and tank.

As for the discus fighting, it could be they are working out hierarchy status. Perhaps they need a little more divisions? Maybe some driftwood? Idk, I keep angels, not discus, but I have lots of driftwood or plant mass to make divisions. For you I would go with driftwood because I agree not to go too crazy with plants for the discus. What you have is nice. So the straight vals are the ones along the back wall? The gigantic val is at the right side?

 

I would go with what it says and do the 10ml. It keeps algae from growing as well as helping the plants.

Sorry I was thinking of a different thread when I answered this. Yes the smaller amount will work for now with the lesser amount of plants.

 

You know? Sometimes less is more. I get how the discus breeder is against planted tanks, it's a common feeling among discus breeders. It's especially as they mature (grow up) that a bare-bottom tank is recommended. But a little bit of plant and a thin layer of sand is usually agreed upon as adults. A lot of ppl use pots to plant their bigger plants in such as sword or crypt bunches. I prefer swords because they are indigenous to South America.
The key to raising nice discus is clean fresh water and tank.

As for the discus fighting, it could be they are working out hierarchy status. Perhaps they need a little more divisions? Maybe some driftwood? Idk, I keep angels, not discus, but I have lots of driftwood or plant mass to make divisions. For you I would go with driftwood because I agree not to go too crazy with plants for the discus. What you have is nice. So the straight vals are the ones along the back wall? The gigantic val is at the right side?

Every discus keeper I've spoken to was alarmed at my planted choice but looking at the science, and a lot of well established planted discus tanks on non discus forums and youtube, it seems like a viable way forward.

The pecking order is established. A pair have formed and spawned and they're the most aggressive with one other discus in particular, "Scarlett." She won't leave their designated spawn site alone which causes a lot of fights. Despite knowing that it'll cause a reaction she just eases her way over until they force her to retreat. I think she's a little jealous or in the mood herself.

Gigantea is on the right. I'm annoyed the normal val is turning to mush but I knew it was a possibility.

Sorry I was thinking of a different thread when I answered this. Yes the smaller amount will work for now with the lesser amount of plants.

I've always used self mixed Estimative Index and was able to tailor the dosage. My uncertainty was due to never using seachem flourish before but so far so good.

 

Every discus keeper I've spoken to was alarmed at my planted choice but looking at the science, and a lot of well established planted discus tanks on non discus forums and youtube, it seems like a viable way forward.

The pecking order is established. A pair have formed and spawned and they're the most aggressive with one other discus in particular, "Scarlett." She won't leave their designated spawn site alone which causes a lot of fights. Despite knowing that it'll cause a reaction she just eases her way over until they force her to retreat. I think she's a little jealous or in the mood herself.

Gigantea is on the right. I'm annoyed the normal val is turning to mush but I knew it was a possibility.



I've always used self mixed Estimative Index and was able to tailor the dosage. My uncertainty was due to never using seachem flourish before but so far so good.

When my angels spawn, one of the pairs can't keep the eggs for long. The other pair gets them to free-swimming IN the 120 gallon with the 6 other angels. The 6 other angels try to test the pair and get at the eggs, but the one pair causes them all to retreat back. As long as there is no damage to the fish, i'm ok with it.

Sorry the straight val is melting. So did you cut of the melted roots? If they are mush, they aren't helping your plant

 

I would say for vals it’s probably best to buy locally. This way there already growing in your water. Crypts seem to be a little stronger.

 

When my angels spawn, one of the pairs can't keep the eggs for long. The other pair gets them to free-swimming IN the 120 gallon with the 6 other angels. The 6 other angels try to test the pair and get at the eggs, but the one pair causes them all to retreat back. As long as there is no damage to the fish, i'm ok with it.

Sorry the straight val is melting. So did you cut of the melted roots? If they are mush, they aren't helping your plant

I have 20 giant vals on the way. Hopefully I'll have them planted early next week.

I'm going to start a fishlore petition to get you to start a journal. I'd love to see how things are in your tank angelcraze I feel like the forum would be better off for it.

I would say for vals it’s probably best to buy locally. This way there already growing in your water. Crypts seem to be a little stronger.

My LFS which about 15 minutes away has them in stock but their planted tanks always have those flat/horizontal, pinkish, pest snails that drag their shells. And worst of all they are A-sexual.




From past experience they can over run a tank and worse still they're too small for assassin snails.

 

Those look like an interesting version of a Ramshorn snail.

 

Lol nothing is too small for an assassin . Yes pest snails s##k. But if not overfed they will not take over a tank. I’ve got bladder and mts n most of my tanks. I have a pair of clown loaches in my 90. I feed them bladder snails. Now all the fish in that tank eat bladder snails. The others saw the loaches eating the snails when I drop them in and now join in on the feast. So I use this to my advantage. My qt tank for plants is a shrimp/snail tank. I put plants in there and they clean off anything on them than before I put them in my discus tank I drop them into my 90 and those fish clean them off of snails. Usually leave them in there for a day. Still no bladders in the discus tank . Keep your tanks working for you . Not sure if you have other tanks . But even a 10 gal with a few puffer fish will clean off snails and there fun to watch .

 

Lol nothing is too small for an assassin . Yes pest snails s##k. But if not overfed they will not take over a tank. I’ve got bladder and mts n most of my tanks. I have a pair of clown loaches in my 90. I feed them bladder snails. Now all the fish in that tank eat bladder snails. The others saw the loaches eating the snails when I drop them in and now join in on the feast. So I use this to my advantage. My qt tank for plants is a shrimp/snail tank. I put plants in there and they clean off anything on them than before I put them in my discus tank I drop them into my 90 and those fish clean them off of snails. Usually leave them in there for a day. Still no bladders in the discus tank . Keep your tanks working for you . Not sure if you have other tanks . But even a 10 gal with a few puffer fish will clean off snails and there fun to watch .

When I first got them the folks over at plantedtank were adamant that assassins wouldn't be viable due to how small they were and how assassins eat their prey. I don't know much about either species. Just that this flat snail reproduces fast

That said your QT tank sounds like a really interesting set up. I have a 180L qt tank and a 60L that's in the garden shed.

 

Speaking of QT tanks. The light on my QT is basically non existent. It's just a weak waterproof led tube I got from amazon for about £10 so the colours on the black neon look a little surprising in the main tank. I didn't notice the turquoise bar on their body in the lfs either.






I'm thinking of upping their number from 32 - 40.

 

Very Nice,
I kept Black neons when I first started only 6. Great fish, seeing yours I suddenly have this itch for them again. LOL

 

Very Nice,
I kept Black neons when I first started only 6. Great fish, seeing yours I suddenly have this itch for them again. LOL

I've never had them before but it's clear they're a pretty underrated fish. THe turquoise stripe is unexpected and they're schooling tightly. I'm eager to see what they look like when they're fully coloured up. I'd say get them asap jmaldo if you're in the market. We can be blue diamond and black neon buddies if you do

I should add that they're a lot smaller than my lemons. My rudimentary bioload math suggests I would need to up the number to about 48 black neons to match the 24 Lemon tetra bioload.

So I might shoot for 40 Black neons instead of 32. What do you think?

 

Yes. the turquoise stripe is beautiful, even the 6 I kept would school tightly. Has to be a sight to behold to see 32 together. Well, I just might get some if they are available at an auction I plan on attending in a few weeks. I say why not, 8 more of those little guys, should not make that much of a difference.
Good Luck!

 

I have those snails in my 120g! Also for them from my LFS. Normally snails don't last long in my soft water (I have one huge lone etched ramhorn in there) but these minI ramshorns don't have a problem lol. I actually squish some of them and feed my fish. My gold pearlscale angel is always watching my fingers for snails! She LoVes escargot They do reproduce pretty quickly, but overall I don't mind them, I like that they are free nutrition for my fish. PS they will only eat the squished ones.

Lol at your petition. Maybe one day I'll start one. This forum keeps me busy enough as it is! But I do like sharing my experiences

 

She LoVes escargot

lol haha

 

Yes. the turquoise stripe is beautiful, even the 6 I kept would school tightly. Has to be a sight to behold to see 32 together. Well, I just might get some if they are available at an auction I plan on attending in a few weeks. I say why not, 8 more of those little guys, should not make that much of a difference.
Good Luck!

How many would you go for if they're available?

I have those snails in my 120 gallon! Also for them from my LFS. Normally snails don't last long in my soft water (I have one huge lone etched ramhorn in there) but these minI ramshorns don't have a problem lol. I actually squish some of them and feed my fish. My gold pearlscale angel is always watching my fingers for snails! She LoVes escargot They do reproduce pretty quickly, but overall I don't mind them, I like that they are free nutrition for my fish. PS they will only eat the squished ones.

Lol at your petition. Maybe one day I'll start one. This forum keeps me busy enough as it is! But I do like sharing my experiences

I squished them too lol At the time I had a school of 9 bleeding hearts who would swamp my fingers if I placed them near a flat ramshorn. But they're A-Sexual and I'm not a fan of how quickly their numbers grew...

More importantly we enjoy all of your musings and experiences. So seeing a journal of your own would be a boon. I'd sub instantly but I'm sure you already know that

 

More giant val

 

I squished them too lol At the time I had a school of 9 bleeding hearts who would swamp my fingers if I placed them near a flat ramshorn. But they're A-Sexual and I'm not a fan of how quickly their numbers grew...

More importantly we enjoy all of your musings and experiences. So seeing a journal of your own would be a boon. I'd sub instantly but I'm sure you already know that

Fish are so smart Well more so than most give them credit for. They definitely make a great pet.

Awwwww That is very sweet to say and definitely made my day and has an impact on me. Very appreciated that you let me know that

 

Fish are so smart Well more so than most give them credit for.

Unless you are MissNoodle who has miss bacardi(sp?). Btw: I give up tring to spell her name.

 

Hey everyone

It's been a nervous week + since the build started. My parameters are a lot close to where I wanted them to be. Phos and nitrate are down from 5ppm and 10/20ppm to 1ppm and 5ppm And after 10 days there is no sign of Cyno/blue green algae. Which is great considering that in the previous build it'd reappear after the first photo period. So the addition of plants looks to be keeping it at bay by outcompeting it.

Unfortunately, the discus have been extremely skittish. When trying to work out the best way forward I didn't take into account how an entirely new setup that looks and smells differently to them would impact their behaviour. The good news is that after 10 days they're becoming more adventurous and so hopefully soon things will be back to normal.

The black neons school as tightly as rummies but with the edition of playing in high flow areas. I grabbed a pic (actually the screen shot of a vid) of them after the lights just came on and found some of them already at the back of the tank playing in the FX6 outflow

Lights take a minute to simulate the sunrise effect and vid zoom makes the co2 bubbles look huge but you get the picture.

Fish are so smart Well more so than most give them credit for. They definitely make a great pet.

Awwwww That is very sweet to say and definitely made my day and has an impact on me. Very appreciated that you let me know that

Yup. Smart and full of personality.

I'm glad you appreciate my fishlore shoutout My conundrum going into this was dispersing aggression, balancing parameters, fighting algae and finding a setup/scape that wouldn't trap and food and allow nutrients to build. Your response to my PM saved me a lot of time on two fronts so I'm always appreciative.

Hopefully, if and when someone else runs into a similar scenario they might stumble upon this journal and find an idea or two that could potentially help them. Which is what it's all about

Speaking of which, with your permission I'd very much like to post the aquarium pic you sent me.

Rolla

 

Of course RollaPear, i'm honored really! To be honest, I have always loved your tank and noticed that you have the same 'style' as I do, and is why I gravitated to your journal in the first place

Actually I do have a question, how did you get your phosphates down? I suspect that is my issue as well. Thank you for your observation.

I love your black neons! I would even consider them myself now, it's that blue stripe, it's beautiful I keep flip flopping how I want to stock my 'showtank' tank But that was always one of my favorite things, a small fish school with some big fish.

 

I didn't take into account how an entirely new setup that looks and smells differently to them would impact their behaviour.

Exactly, mine have been raised basically in a bare bottom tank, a few plants in pots. Just recently went crazy with the "Underwater Gardening" and my pair reacted similarly. I suppose it should be expected, imagine someone coming in and rearranging your living quarters.

Learning all the Time.

 

Of course RollaPear, i'm honored really! To be honest, I have always loved your tank and noticed that you have the same 'style' as I do, and is why I gravitated to your journal in the first place

Actually I do have a question, how did you get your phosphates down? I suspect that is my issue as well. Thank you for your observation.

I love your black neons! I would even consider them myself now, it's that blue stripe, it's beautiful I keep flip flopping how I want to stock my 'showtank' tank But that was always one of my favorite things, a small fish school with some big fish.

I am actually a little embarrassed. I've been in this hobby for some time and I've kept cardians, neon and green neons but never kept these despite having mts quite severely at one point. They are absolutely stunning in my humble opinion. The camera setting is a little washed out here but they're a very vibrant and active. I have another 10 on the way.

A vid

https://imgur.com/fzDAHc8

Exactly, mine have been raised basically in a bare bottom tank, a few plants in pots. Just recently went crazy with the "Underwater Gardening" and my pair reacted similarly. I suppose it should be expected, imagine someone coming in and rearranging your living quarters.

Learning all the Time.

Indeed indeed. My focus was on the balance and I didn't even consider how they'd react. They're too full of personality and right now are standing in protest against the changes.

I remembered over the weekend at how long they took to eat after they were shipped to me. 6 took two weeks. THe reaming two took a month and I freaked out. And now they'll nip my fingers in anticipation.

 

Actually I do have a question, how did you get your phosphates down? I suspect that is my issue as well. Thank you for your observation.

I didn't answer this specifically. My bad angelcraze

I think Phos is a by product of the nitrogen cycle. Dicus forums attribute it to uneaten food being trapped and accumliating in planted tanks. I know it as a macro fert that plants do consume and keep the levels low. But if you use ferts use one without macros and the plants will draw from what''s available.

 

My discus have pretty much been in sulk mode. Initially eating less because they were more skittish but over the past week they've been gaining in confidence. And so today, when they came out to feed I took the opportunity to snap a few photos. My photography skills are always lacking but hopefully these will suffice.

Pics are post WC and the bubbles are from my surface skimmer going haywire. I really need to find a decent alternative.

"Aggy" If you look between her ventral and analfin you'll see a small orangey/pinkish fleshy tube. It's difficult to spot but I might need to set up another tank.



From left to right "Bulla" and "Dusty" they have spawned previously but Dusty ate all the eggs as they were being laid.



"Tiny" (Smallest)



Tiny. Top centre with his mouth open (the widest)






That aside the plan seems to be working. Lower Nitrates, Lower Phos and lowering the intensity of the WRGB spectrum is still keeping Cyno from rearing it's ugly head. The plan for the upcoming week is some live foods, more plants, and researching how to turn my 180L into breeding tank.

I have a canister filter but from my understanding that's the wrong type of filtration for discus spawning?

 

My discus have pretty much been in sulk mode. Initially eating less because they were more skittish but over the past week they've been gaining in confidence. And so today, when they came out to feed I took the opportunity to snap a few photos. My photography skills are always lacking but hopefully these will suffice.

Pics are post WC and the bubbles are from my surface skimmer going haywire. I really need to find a decent alternative.

"Aggy" If you look between her ventral and analfin you'll see a small orangey/pinkish fleshy tube. It's difficult to spot but I might need to set up another tank.
View attachment 670367

From left to right "Bulla" and "Dusty" they have spawned previously but Dusty ate all the eggs as they were being laid.
View attachment 670368

"Tiny" (Smallest)
View attachment 670369

Tiny. Top centre with his mouth open (the widest)
View attachment 670370

View attachment 670371

That aside the plan seems to be working. Lower Nitrates, Lower Phos and lowering the intensity of the WRGB spectrum is still keeping Cyno from rearing it's ugly head. The plan for the upcoming week is some live foods, more plants, and researching how to turn my 180L into breeding tank.

I have a canister filter but from my understanding that's the wrong type of filtration for discus spawning?

Beautiful pics! Just gorgeous!

For the 180L, just get a sponge seasoned in the main tank, use it for a sponge filter. Maybe two sponges (I would). Sponge is the best filtration for breeding and growing out discus and angels.

I keep saying angels, but that's because I've not kept discus yet.

 

Just pointing out that “YET”. ^^^

 

Beautiful pics! Just gorgeous!

For the 180L, just get a sponge seasoned in the main tank, use it for a sponge filter. Maybe two sponges (I would). Sponge is the best filtration for breeding and growing out discus and angels.

I keep saying angels, but that's because I've not kept discus yet.

I'm happy you like the pics angelcraze

I'm thinking about asking for some pro tips in the discus gang thread. But your post as always is a great place to start. I ordered a couple from Amazon but for some reason I'm still leaning towards the oase canister.

Just pointing out that “YET”. ^^^

Yup I noticed that too

 

Air driven sponge filters for breeding tanks .
You can run what ever you want along with them or it but once you have eggs or fry you will have to shut it down and then it will be just the sponge ..

 

Air driven sponge filters for breeding tanks .
You can run what ever you want along with them or it but once you have eggs or fry you will have to shut it down and then it will be just the sponge ..

Hey coralbandit

I haven't looked into spawning beyond the basics. But from what I do understand my 180L tank is too big and also I don't understand the filtration... I'm looking at the beneficial bacteria aspect and the sponge filters I see in use with disucs breeding setups, don't seem to be capable of much except surface agitation?

 

Why would you think sponges can't support bacteria ? I have never seen one person say their sponge was not working proper ?
They are SUPERIOR to all other bio media IMO . I only use sponges even in my sump set ups .
The sponge filter is all in one ; mechanical and bio .
I run sponges in all my tanks many with no other assistance .
My two batches of discus where hatched and raised by the parents in a tank that most would say is too large 60 gallon..

 

Perhaps I wasn't as specific as I needed to be coralbandit

I'm not talking about the capabilities of a sponge as media to hold BB bacteria more so the capabilities of that filtration system, in it's totality, that I see used on discus tanks.

Having never used one, to me it looks like two prefilter sponges. And I'd want more media to raise 50+ fry. Again, I've never researched a discus breeding setup. But over time, I've raised various apisto fry using eheim internal filter that I'd seed with media from one of my canister filters, when needed, and be instantly cycled.

I don't see the same capability with the above.

 

I don't use sponges like that although I suppose two or three would work fine ..
Discus people may be big water changers but breeders change more .
Filters a device to encourage the keepers laziness IMO.
Anything or nothing will work fine if you change water .
I am a clean water advocate ,not filtered water advocate ..
I use these Sponge Filters
They have sponges that are over 12 inches wide ,that should hold plenty bacteria ?
If you got an internal filter to work with apisto maybe you can with discus too ?

 

I don't use sponges like that although I suppose two or three would work fine ..
Discus people may be big water changers but breeders change more .
Filters a device to encourage the keepers laziness IMO.
Anything or nothing will work fine if you change water .
I am a clean water advocate ,not filtered water advocate ..
I use these Sponge Filters
They have sponges that are over 12 inches wide ,that should hold plenty bacteria ?
If you got an internal filter to work with apisto maybe you can with discus too ?

Initially I said

"I'm looking at the beneficial bacteria aspect and the sponge filters I see in use with disucs breeding setups, don't seem to be capable of much except surface agitation?"

Because I was looking specifically at actual filtration and to me, the sponge filters everyone uses didn't seem to house much of it. I think that's where the confusion in this discussion comes from. As for WCs on a discus fry tank my understanding was that had to be done daily?

If they spawn (and dusty doesn't eat the eggs) my plan is to get one of these 120L barrels from amazon



So that I can have temperature matched and pre-dechlorinated daily water changes. I'm not sure about actual filtration making people "lazy." Personally, I never go into any setup (discus or otherwise) without Beneficial bacteria being able to neutralize the adverse affects of Ammonia and Nitrite. And while I get that large Daily WCs can negate those from being a factor, I'd be far more confident with BB as a foundation to everything.

 

Rolla as coral stated sponges hold more bacteria than any other media. Nothing is more porous nothing has more surface area to hold bacteria. Yes those sponges will work in your 160l/40g tank. I would use 2. What’s great about them is you could have them running in other tanks and just pull them to use in your new tank. Put them back when your done. I don’t use those either but many here do. I use a powerhead with 2 sponges on it
polyfill in the bottom here because I was cleaning the tank. When starting a new tank I take the bottom sponge out and transfer it over. Cycle done.
Your other media works (matrix, biohome) but not as good as sponges. People are realizing this now. Those others are products being moved by good advertising.

 

Great discussion guys.
I have sponge filters in all my tanks along with canister filtration. I do 75% water changes twice a week. Using aged water from a drum treated, heated and aerated.
My only concern with the sponge filter is the fact the Discus darken up to attract the fry to attach and the sponge is also dark. Confusion for the fry?
I have yet to get my spawns past the wiggler stage but...
I have a modified a sponge setup using the lighter colored sponge normally used in HOBs.
Fins Crossed.

 

Rolla as coral stated sponges hold more bacteria than any other media. Nothing is more porous nothing has more surface area to hold bacteria. Yes those sponges will work in your 160l/40 gallon tank. I would use 2. What’s great about them is you could have them running in other tanks and just pull them to use in your new tank. Put them back when your done. I don’t use those either but many here do. I use a powerhead with 2 sponges on itView attachment 670754polyfill in the bottom here because I was cleaning the tank. When starting a new tank I take the bottom sponge out and transfer it over. Cycle done.
Your other media works (matrix, biohome) but not as good as sponges. People are realizing this now. Those others are products being moved by good advertising.

Hey 86 ssinit

I am not trying to negate the importance of filter sponges. Both my Oase 350 and Fluval FX6 canisters use 90% sponge media. So you can be assured I believe in them too. I was more so wondering about the amount of BB in the air driven sponge filters most discus keepers turn to for spawning.

Most Discus keepers use large, daily, WCs to control levels of toxicity. My understanding was the large WC was more so for hormone removal... But I guess as long as we do them, the reasons why we do them become less important than the outcome. I appreciate the input and the pic. Personally, I'd be more inclined to go with your filter setup as you can be instantly cycled with it.

Great discussion guys.
I have sponge filters in all my tanks along with canister filtration. I do 75% water changes twice a week. Using aged water from a drum treated, heated and aerated.
My only concern with the sponge filter is the fact the Discus darken up to attract the fry to attach and the sponge is also dark. Confusion for the fry?
I have yet to get my spawns past the wiggler stage but...
I have a modified a sponge setup using the lighter colored sponge normally used in HOBs.
Fins Crossed.

I believe I got the drum idea from your journal. I haven't purchased one yet because they're on Amazon Prime and available next day if needed. I've read the discussion on temp matching during a WC. Some need it precise and exact others lower the temperature slightly because they say it improves health.

I drop my temp from 29/30c to 28C but with a grow out tank I'd keep it exact. Can I ask what the PH is between your tap and aged water after 12-24 hours?

coralbandit As always I appreciate the feedback. I rarely post on Discus forums because I find myself researching more than anything else. What I notice most on those forums is that not everyone gets their discus to spawn. It's not a guaranteed thing. And many go years and never even see the flirtation/spawning behaviour. So to be able to bounce around ideas with you and others who have reached that stage like jmaldo and 86 ssinit as well as others is always a good thing in my opinion.

 

I'm still waiting on a few more plants to be delivered but today, this plant arrived.

Anubias Nana Pangolino








I'm hoping that the thicker structure of anubias means this plant will survive at discus temps. I'm surprised by how much I like the look of this plant. I'm hoping that the other plants I ordered will be here before the weekend but I'm still using ebay so it's still a case of wait and see.

 

Looking good!

 

Thanks Amazoniantanklvr