100% new to fish tanks (ph help)

First time posting so take easy on me.

I'm putting together my fish tank for the first time ever.

So I got gravel put it in the tank and filled tank half way or less with water say 2 months ago. I then went to pet store bought some scenery (3 artificial roots and some plants) and put then in the water say I did that 2 weeks after fish tank was half filled. Prolly 3 days after that I filled tank rest of way. I then ordered my filters and other things took them 4 weeks to get here. A week later I hooked all up filters heaters light.

Time line to make easier.(rough dates)
Feb 15st put gravel in tank filled up half
Feb 25th added decorations
Feb 28th filled rest of tank
April 16th hooked all the stuff up.
April 27th added a condition to make tap safe.
April 30th checked ph levels

In the tank I got ph8.2 , straight from sink got 7.4.

SO question is what do I need to do to get ph level where I need it which is 6.5 - 7.0?


Additional info there is no fish in tank.
It's a 55 gal tank
350 penguin filter
Random aqueon filter
300w heater
Cleaned tank and decorations and filters before putting in tank. Did not clean gravel. Haven't cleaned anything since first starting installation.


Thank you for your help.

 

Welcome to Fishlore~

7.4 and 8.2 are both suitable enough for most fish. The real question is, what's causing such a drastic change from the tap to the tank? There are three possibilities here:

1) Your tap water, after sitting, goes through changes and becomes more alkaline (you can test for this by leaving tap water out in a bucket with an airstone for extended periods of time then testing again)
2) You have decor or media within the tank that alters the pH (perhaps something in the gravel that didn't get washed out - my sand altered pH before it was rinsed but not after)
3) Your GH or KH are not at a suitable level, but that becomes territory for @CindiL

More importantly, do you know about the nitrogen cycle?

 

Hello and welcome to Fishlore!

Is there a specific fish species that you want that needs a lower pH? Most aquarium fish can adapt to a higher pH such as 8.2.

 

Welcome to Fishlore~

7.4 and 8.2 are both suitable enough for most fish. The real question is, what's causing such a drastic change from the tap to the tank? There are three possibilities here:

1) Your tap water, after sitting, goes through changes and becomes more alkaline (you can test for this by leaving tap water out in a bucket with an airstone for extended periods of time then testing again)
2) You have decor or media within the tank that alters the pH (perhaps something in the gravel that didn't get washed out - my sand altered pH before it was rinsed but not after)
3) Your GH or KH are not at a suitable level, but that becomes territory for @CindiL

More importantly, do you know about the nitrogen cycle?

I don't know about nitrogen cycle.

I looked up Gh n Kh and didn't really understand what it was.

What should I do to fix it?
(Drain re clean and refill?)

Hello and welcome to Fishlore!

Is there a specific fish species that you want that needs a lower pH? Most aquarium fish can adapt to a higher pH such as 8.2.

What I want is (correct me if I can't)

Angelfish
Cardinal tetras
Some sort of neat guppy
Xray tetra
Smaller pleco
Cory cat







I just went off one site with the pH levels.

 

What should I do to fix it?
(Drain re clean and refill?)

Not quite yet. Try a process of elimination before taking the biggest step.

I would suggest first to test the pH of tap water that has been sitting out. If you don't have an air stone or air pump to run in it, I don't think it's imperative, but it does help the water to gas off. I think you're meant to test it after it sits for an hour, then again after it sits for 24 hours. Note any differences in pH from water that's right out of the tap.

If it changes to 8.2 as your tank did, then that will be the true pH of your tank (and for water changes, you'll want to let the replacement water sit out before adding it to your tank so that it doesn't stress the livestock).

If it doesn't change, then you're going to want to test for GH and KH (I don't understand them very much myself, so I'm not totally helpful here) and bring the numbers here to the forums where someone can explain if they're in good shape and why. Essentially, the water's hardness plays an important role in keeping the pH from swinging. A lower hardness is less able to keep things in control.

Once you're certain that these aren't the cause of your changes, I'd say to then go ahead and pull the tank apart to get that gravel rinsed. Just because it was the case for me, doesn't necessarily mean it will be the case for you.


Now, you're going to want to do yourself a BIG favour and learn about the nitrogen cycle before you ever consider bringing fish into the tank! This can save you a lot of heartbreak when things don't go so well.

 

Not quite yet. Try a process of elimination before taking the biggest step.

I would suggest first to test the pH of tap water that has been sitting out. If you don't have an air stone or air pump to run in it, I don't think it's imperative, but it does help the water to gas off. I think you're meant to test it after it sits for an hour, then again after it sits for 24 hours. Note any differences in pH from water that's right out of the tap.

If it changes to 8.2 as your tank did, then that will be the true pH of your tank (and for water changes, you'll want to let the replacement water sit out before adding it to your tank so that it doesn't stress the livestock).

If it doesn't change, then you're going to want to test for GH and KH (I don't understand them very much myself, so I'm not totally helpful here) and bring the numbers here to the forums where someone can explain if they're in good shape and why. Essentially, the water's hardness plays an important role in keeping the pH from swinging. A lower hardness is less able to keep things in control.

Once you're certain that these aren't the cause of your changes, I'd say to then go ahead and pull the tank apart to get that gravel rinsed. Just because it was the case for me, doesn't necessarily mean it will be the case for you.


Now, you're going to want to do yourself a BIG favour and learn about the nitrogen cycle before you ever consider bringing fish into the tank! This can save you a lot of heartbreak when things don't go so well.

Thank you for the help

Tried to message you didn't work.
Could you link me to a easy to understand nitrogen cycle I seen a few they were just to hard to understand.

Also is the test kit for Kh and Gh called just that? (A Gh test kit)

 

Yes, for sure!

Here's a link for learning about the cycle:
This website is also an incredible resource to help any first time tank owners catch up on what they should know. Click around a bit, do your research! And any further questions you need answered, Fishlore is the place to ask them!

You'd be looking for this product:

 

Could you link me to a easy to understand nitrogen cycle I seen a few they were just to hard to understand.

Welcome to FishLore!
Here are a few links right here on FishLore you might find helpful

Nitrogen Cycle

FishLore's Free Freshwater Aquarium E-Book

Good luck!

 

Hi, welcome to fishlore

Some water supplies have CO2 in them, most notably well water, once it is out of the ground and in your tank being aerated, the CO2 off gasses and no longer depresses the ph. It rises to its "true" number. A ph of 8.2 is fine and I wouldn't try and alter it. A stable ph at 8.2 is way better than one you're trying to adjust.

Read about the nitrogen cycle in the link and then decide if you are going to cycle the tank fishless using pure ammonia or with fish. Either way you will need the API freshwater master test kit if you already do not have it. Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner.

If you decide to cycle with fish I'd suggest one small fish per 10 gallon initially like maybe the guppies you want and a bacterial additive like Seachem Stability or Tetra Safe Start. If you come here we can walk you through it if you'd like but here are a couple additional threads to read after you understand the nitrogen cycle:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/ammonia-instructions-for-a-fishless-cycle.19627/

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

The tetras need to be in groups of at least 6 and same with the cories.

 

Hi, welcome to fishlore

Some water supplies have CO2 in them, most notably well water, once it is out of the ground and in your tank being aerated, the CO2 off gasses and no longer depresses the ph. It rises to its "true" number. A ph of 8.2 is fine and I wouldn't try and alter it. A stable ph at 8.2 is way better than one you're trying to adjust.

Read about the nitrogen cycle in the link and then decide if you are going to cycle the tank fishless using pure ammonia or with fish. Either way you will need the API freshwater master test kit if you already do not have it. Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner.

If you decide to cycle with fish I'd suggest one small fish per 10 gallon initially like maybe the guppies you want and a bacterial additive like Seachem Stability or Tetra Safe Start. If you come here we can walk you through it if you'd like but here are a couple additional threads to read after you understand the nitrogen cycle:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/ammonia-instructions-for-a-fishless-cycle.19627/

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

The tetras need to be in groups of at least 6 and same with the cories.

Wow that's a lot of info. Thank you very much.

I'll re read that a few times before I can comprehend.

But big thing I'm not understanding is the pH level. The fish site I used gave a ph level for fish I want and it's way lower than 8.2 , but you say 8.2 is a good level. Could you explain how that works to me?


I'll put my sink water readings at 1 hour and 24 hours as soon as I get them.

 

Ph honestly isn't that important, especially when moving low ph to high ph. Doing high to low is where issues occur. I'm not the chemist CindiL is, but your ph is essentially decided by the kh and gh of your tank. A tank with higher kh and gh will usually have a high ph, and vice versa. Your bacteria and fish both absorb kh and gh, which are dissolved solids in the water, like calcium, iron, other things I don't know the name of. As your fish pass water through their gills they absorb some of the minerals from the water. Fish from high gh/kh/ph hard water absorb more minerals at a quicker rate than fish from low gh/kh/ph. The thing is, those fish from lower mineral water don't begin suddenly absorbing more minerals, as long as you acclimate them properly, they'll continue to absorb the lower amount of minerals and be just fine in your environment. They might not breed, and if they do the eggs could get to hard to fertilize, but that's about the only effect from what I've learned. I can't find it atm, but a good chunk of what I said came from a thread on planted tanks, explaining why ph isn't that important. Essentially, some of them see ph changes of 1.2 degrees or higher on a daily basis as their co2 pumps turn on during the day and off at night, and the fish are not adversely affected. Lead to the conclusion that it isn't actually ph shock, but osmotic shock that harm the fish.


Not the source I first heard what I just espoused, but definitely inspired it, or was inspired by it

I'm sure CindiL will be along shortly to correct the mistakes I probably made with this post xD.

 

Ha ha, I only saw a couple minor things I would correct.
General hardness comes from salts like calcium chloride, magnesium chloride, potassium chloride and effects osmotic function directly. KH or alkalinity does not effect the fish directly but generally the two go hand in hand. You can however have a high KH like with sodium bicarbonate and little or no hardness or calcium. This is dry but informative.



I like the Oscar article and have read it before. I think some key points to remember are generally when fish experience natural ph fluctuations it is over 24 hours like if you think of a pond, ph will rise and fall quite a bit within a 24 hour period as well as temperature to no detriment to the fish.

I agree going from high to low causes the biggest issues but I don't think it is only a TDS difference causing it. If TDS is the same and your tank is a ph of 8.2 and you change out the water (same TDS) with water saturated with CO2 and a ph of 6.6 it will be to sudden of a change and will be too hard to adjust to causing stress and worse. I found this out luckily without killing my own fish. In these scenarios I think the net ph change in the tank should be .5-.6 max.

But big thing I'm not understanding is the pH level. The fish site I used gave a ph level for fish I want and it's way lower than 8.2 , but you say 8.2 is a good level. Could you explain how that works to me?
I'll put my sink water readings at 1 hour and 24 hours as soon as I get them.

Soulone the ph values listed for fish species often comes from their native wild waters and ideal breeding parameters. Like mentioned in the oscar article (you don't need to read it, not trying to overwhelm you first time around), is hardness levels, not ph that can harm fish. Fish can live in a wide variety of ph levels with no detriment from 6.8-8.4 just fine. Unless you are wanting to breed them you will have no issues with the majority of fish species.

 

Ha ha, I only saw a couple minor things I would correct.
General hardness comes from salts like calcium chloride, magnesium chloride, potassium chloride and effects osmotic function directly. KH or alkalinity does not effect the fish directly but generally the two go hand in hand. You can however have a high KH like with sodium bicarbonate and little or no hardness or calcium. This is dry but informative.



I like the Oscar article and have read it before. I think some key points to remember are generally when fish experience natural ph fluctuations it is over 24 hours like if you think of a pond, ph will rise and fall quite a bit within a 24 hour period as well as temperature to no detriment to the fish.

I agree going from high to low causes the biggest issues but I don't think it is only a TDS difference causing it. If TDS is the same and your tank is a ph of 8.2 and you change out the water (same TDS) with water saturated with CO2 and a ph of 6.6 it will be to sudden of a change and will be too hard to adjust to causing stress and worse. I found this out luckily without killing my own fish. In these scenarios I think the net ph change in the tank should be .5-.6 max.



Soulone the ph values listed for fish species often comes from their native wild waters and ideal breeding parameters. Like mentioned in the oscar article (you don't need to read it, not trying to overwhelm you first time around), is hardness levels, not ph that can harm fish. Fish can live in a wide variety of ph levels with no detriment from 6.8-8.4 just fine. Unless you are wanting to breed them you will have no issues with the majority of fish species.

Ok to make this eaiser. After I check my sinks ph value after it sat for 24 hours what should I do. Before I get fish? Or do I get fish?

 

You should be fine with the difference between your sink and tank ph changing up to 30-50% a week.

What are you testing with? Pick up the API Master Liquid Freshwater test kit.
Pick up Seachem Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner and Tetra Safe Start Plus.

1st Day, dose Prime for the full volume of the tank and test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Post those here.

2nd Day, add in 6 small fish, NO MORE and a whole bottle of Tetra Safe Start at the same time.

Do nothing for two weeks other than water top offs after the first week (dose new water with Prime).

After two weeks test your parameters again. If ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are increasing you are cycled. You should have a small cycle for these fish at the end of two weeks.

After that you can very slowly add in more fish, two or three a week until stocked, making sure to test your parameters. Anytime you have ammonia and/or nitrite readings dose prime for the full volume of the tank (not the first two weeks though). This will keep your fish safe from ammonia/nitrites up to 1.0 when adding in new fish.

Did you read about the nitrogen cycle? do you understand or have any questions?

 

You should be fine with the difference between your sink and tank ph changing up to 30-50% a week.

What are you testing with? Pick up the API Master Liquid Freshwater test kit.
Pick up Seachem Prime or Amquel Plus water conditioner and Tetra Safe Start Plus.

1st Day, dose Prime for the full volume of the tank and test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Post those here.

2nd Day, add in 6 small fish, NO MORE and a whole bottle of Tetra Safe Start at the same time.

Do nothing for two weeks other than water top offs after the first week (dose new water with Prime).

After two weeks test your parameters again. If ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are increasing you are cycled. You should have a small cycle for these fish at the end of two weeks.

After that you can very slowly add in more fish, two or three a week until stocked, making sure to test your parameters. Anytime you have ammonia and/or nitrite readings dose prime for the full volume of the tank (not the first two weeks though). This will keep your fish safe from ammonia/nitrites up to 1.0 when adding in new fish.

Did you read about the nitrogen cycle? do you understand or have any questions?

Yes I have apI master test kit
And tetra conditioner

Lots of questions , lol sorry.
I won't get to this til weekend due to work. But ,,,


Questions
1. Do I need to empty tank completely?
(It's had water in it for 2 months)

2. Where can I get this prime stuff?

3. With a 55 gal tank only fish I really want I'd angelfish (rest are just fillers)
Can you help with what fish I can get how many and why that many?

Start out with those.
Once again thank you all so very much.

 

There's never a need to apologize for having questions! It's this community's whole purpose to keep everyone as informed as they need to be for a happy, healthy aquarium.

1. Do I need to empty tank completely?
(It's had water in it for 2 months)

I don't think the water that's in your tank is bad or stagnant or anything, if everything is running and there's movement. It's well aged, yes, but aged water is generally a good thing. Basically guarantees any chlorine or chloramine is 100% nonexistent. You can change the water if you wish, but I don't see this being a problem at this time.

Another thought comes to me: water also brings minerals like iron and trace metals and other micronutrients that are beneficial to fish health, and I don't know if these will also disappear over time without something in there to use them up. It may be worth a 50% water change just to replenish some of these, though I'm just thinking out loud here on that one.

2. Where can I get this prime stuff?

Most local fish stores will definitely carry it! If you cannot find it in person, however, there's also Amazon. The company that produces it is called SeaChem, they generally have very reputable products.

3. With a 55 gal tank only fish I really want I'd angelfish (rest are just fillers)
Can you help with what fish I can get how many and why that many?

Many people here suggest going into a fish store and walking through the tanks without any intention to buy. Just look at the fish, have a gander. Make a list of the species that appeal to you, the ones that get you excited.

Once you have a good list, you can either research compatibility on your own, or bring them here and see what other members might suggest would fit well together! The main thing you're going to want to avoid with angels are aggressive/fin nipping fish, or fish that are small enough to fit in its mouth. These will likely be eaten by the angels.

 

I agree changing out 50% is a good idea.

You can find Seachem Prime or Amquel Plus at most pet stores. Really, any water conditioner that takes care of chlorine, chloramines, heavy metals AND ammonia is what you are looking for. Prime is really inexpensive per gallon ad works well.

Don't forget Tetra Safe Start Plus to add in with the fish. It is a bottle that already has the bacteria needed to seed your filter and jump start the nitrogen cycle. With it you can cycle in about 2 weeks, without it, 4-12 weeks.

I'd almost start a new thread just for stocking. Put a list of what you want in there and you'll get lots of input. Angels are semi-aggressive fish so you wouldn't want to put semi-aggressive tetras in there with them. I would think the cardinals or rummynose or glowlights would be ok as well as a few others.

Shoaling fish like tetras and cories are not comfortable and do not feel safe unless in groups of their own kind which is why you want a minimum of 6. A pair of angels a shoal of cories, a large group of tetras and a few guppies would work (I think). I'd start a new thread

 

Make sure if you get guppies though they are all male because if you get females they could give birth to babies up to a year after being separated from males and they breed like rabbits.