10 Gallon Aquarium Cycle Questions - Page 2

AnglerLuke

Member
sixtyfour said:
We are talking about using seed material from an established tank. It's kind of like "cheating" when it comes to cycling. Honestly I've never done a tank that I didn't seed at least a little.
I would be lieing if I said I did not take it a little the wrong way, but also I honestly was a little concerned that perhaps I had performed the action as I got into this hobby rapidly and with little planning. That is also how I ended up here in contact with very informed individuals. I apologize for the thin skin, I don't take naturally to failing, which is what I have done so far with this hobby but I am learning and that's the important thing.
 

sixtyfour

Member
Seeding is how I get by. I've never done a fish less cycle, and I'm not sure I can. I've always had other tanks, buddies, or helpful fish shops.

I have a big jug of amoninia, tank, filter, and test gear. I should probably give it a shot.
 

AnglerLuke

Member
sixtyfour said:
Seeding is how I get by. I've never done a fish less cycle, and I'm not sure I can. I've always had other tanks, buddies, or helpful fish shops.

I have a big jug of amoninia, tank, filter, and test gear. I should probably give it a shot.
while the science behind it is new to me it probably isn't to you, but none the less it is interesting. My fish in cycle on my first tank ended in utter tragedy so this time I am trying to save lives while speedily getting a tank of appropriate size and nature set up for my "survivors" lol
 

sixtyfour

Member
That's the part that is kind of funny. I love the science part of this. I test my tanks WAY! more than necessary. My wife makes fun of me all the time about it. I've just never done a fish less cycle. I've kept fish for 35 years and that's just not how I do it. Sounds cool, I should probably figure it out.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Ok. Of you don't have movement by tomorrow, you killed the first bottle.
Just out of curiosity, how quickly would I get a change in ammonia after putting in the 2nd tss+ with current ammonia level of 2.0 ppm
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Just out of curiosity, how quickly would I get a change in ammonia after putting in the 2nd tss+ with current ammonia level of 2.0 ppm
Should be a few days before you get something you can tell off of the apI test kit. It may even show a ammonia higher than you started with.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Should be a few days before you get something you can tell off of the apI test kit. It may even show a ammonia higher than you started with.
Been 2 days, no change yet, any reason to worry if not moving by tomorrow?
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Been 2 days, no change yet, any reason to worry if not moving by tomorrow?
No. At this point just test once a day. You're doing everything you can.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
No. At this point just test once a day. You're doing everything you can.
Almost a week now, no movement from 2.0 ppm ammonia, should I worry?
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Almost a week now, no movement from 2.0 ppm ammonia, should I worry?
I wouldn't worry. It appears the tss+ has failed for some reason. What are all of your current testable parameters and temp?
 
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EddieO

Member
Temp: 85 F
Ammonia: 2.0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: 6.6, it just dropped below 7 two days ago
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Temp: 85 F
Ammonia: 2.0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
pH: 6.6, it just dropped below 7 two days ago
Since its fishless add some baking soda. Like a quarter teaspoon. Try and keep your cycle above 7.0 at least until the cycle is complete. The tss+ may actually still just be dormant. You could add some araginite or crushed coral in a media bag in your filter. This will leach slowly and should buffer your kh better. At 6.6, you are on the cusp of not having the ability for your bb to reproduce or even stay very active.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Since its fishless add some baking soda. Like a quarter teaspoon. Try and keep your cycle above 7.0 at least until the cycle is complete. The tss+ may actually still just be dormant. You could add some araginite or crushed coral in a media bag in your filter. This will leach slowly and should buffer your kh better. At 6.6, you are on the cusp of not having the ability for your bb to reproduce or even stay very active.
I added the baking soda, that won’t hurt the fish after it cycles tho right?
 

Wraithen

Member
Correct. Since you don't have fish in there, the rapid swing upward in kh and ph won't hurt anything. You have to be much more delicate when using this method with fish in the tank. Did you test ph yet? It should increase almost instantly.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Correct. Since you don't have fish in there, the rapid swing upward in kh and ph won't hurt anything. You have to be much more delicate when using this method with fish in the tank. Did you test ph yet? It should increase almost instantly.
pH went up to 7.0 I’m gonna test the other levels now
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Correct. Since you don't have fish in there, the rapid swing upward in kh and ph won't hurt anything. You have to be much more delicate when using this method with fish in the tank. Did you test ph yet? It should increase almost instantly.
Ammonia still not moving, don’t understand why and getting very frustrated, why isn’t it cycling
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Ammonia still not moving, don’t understand why and getting very frustrated, why isn’t it cycling
Can I get a picture of your tank setup?

Unless there is something like bleach or antibiotics killing cycle bacteria, I promise you that your cycle is moving, it's just not measurable.

Let me preface what I am going to say with this: I completely understand the cycle, all of the nuances with it, and why everything works the way it does.

I have never done a fishless cycle. There is a way to do a fish in cycle that is perfectly safe and ethical, and I choose that route. With that said, I have held cycles with pure ammonia, and have walked others through the process. I too get very frustrated with this process and give up after a month. I've done this in two states and for some reason can never get a fishless cycle going. Once its started though, I easily grow a bigger colony, or maintain a colony waiting for more fish. I do this in my quarantine tank because I usually only have one while stocking my tank, and that is a 4 time batch project on the best of times, so stocking usually takes me a few months.

Can you also get a picture of the front of the label for the ammonia you are using?

I ask for these pictures to rule out things like a filter that won't work, or added things in the ammonia that you are using.
 

Wraithen

Member
How are the tests coming out?

Have you seen a cloudy water situation develop? I would expect that by the end of the day if the tss+ wasn't a complete dud.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
How are the tests coming out?

Have you seen a cloudy water situation develop? I would expect that by the end of the day if the tss+ wasn't a complete dud.
Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you in a while, been so caught up in life and work, I gave the tank a few days without testing. Ammonia is dropping which is good, between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm, but nitrite still at 0, is this normal?
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Sorry I haven’t gotten back to you in a while, been so caught up in life and work, I gave the tank a few days without testing. Ammonia is dropping which is good, between 0.5 and 1.0 ppm, but nitrite still at 0, is this normal?
Yes. When using tss, you typically won't see the nitrite spike. It's the one part of the cycle that tss really excels pretty much every time.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Yes. When using tss, you typically won't see the nitrite spike. It's the one part of the cycle that tss really excels pretty much every time.
Can you put fish in a tank with 0.25 ppm ammonia and no nitrite and nitrate? Will it survive if monitored?
 

Wraithen

Member
EddieO said:
Can you put fish in a tank with 0.25 ppm ammonia and no nitrite and nitrate? Will it survive if monitored?
Depends on ph and temp. The lower ph and temp, the more of it is ammonium. With that said, .25 ammonia at 76 degrees and a ph of less than 8.0, all but the most sensitive fish will be fine.
 
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EddieO

Member
Wraithen said:
Depends on ph and temp. The lower ph and temp, the more of it is ammonium. With that said, .25 ammonia at 76 degrees and a ph of less than 8.0, all but the most sensitive fish will be fine.
I lowered my temp to 75, ph is 7.2. I’m gonna add my fish in either tomorrow or Saturday. Gonna monitor the ammonia and other levels, hopefully cycle will finish soon. Will let you know what happens
 
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EddieO

Member
EddieO said:
I lowered my temp to 75, ph is 7.2. I’m gonna add my fish in either tomorrow or Saturday. Gonna monitor the ammonia and other levels, hopefully cycle will finish soon. Will let you know what happens
Have my fish almost a day now. Look great! Monitoring ammonia levels, hope it goes well
 
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EddieO

Member
EddieO said:
Have my fish almost a day now. Look great! Monitoring ammonia levels, hope it goes well
Ammonia is still 0.25 ppm, any reason why there is no sign of nitrite or nitrate yet?
 

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