1 Inch per Gallon Stocking

I think I understand now, I never looked at it this way I guess.

We dumb-it-down for those who don't listen and or don't really care. And for those who take the time to read and learn we help further. Got it.


Brian

 

We dumb-it-down for those who don't listen and or don't really care. And for those who take the time to read and learn we help further. Got it.


Brian

That sums it up fairly well.
The root of the problem is that most of society, for whatever reason, believes that keeping fish is extremely simple. Fill a tank, toss some fish in, feed them, you're good. Breaking this illusion takes time for each individual.
It's similar with most pets. How many one-year-old dogs end up at humane societies because people didn't realize just how much work it is to keep a puppy? When I got a guinea pig, I never knew how much maintenance it would require. Thankfully, when I thought I wanted a ferret, the guinea pig experience was still fresh in my mind and I went out and I read about them and found out that I just can't do the work that they require to maintain.

 

Exactly why I hate it.

Lets continue to hold everyones hand, here take this silly guideline (because lets face you are not smart enough to understand what I really want to tell you) and even if you learn nothing else at least you have this rule/guideline. Hurry share it with your moron friends who also care to learn nothing, pretty soon we have a group of people who kept a tank alive for 2 weeks using this guideline, by God they know what they are doing.

Now they are not smart enough to understand beyond this rule, but they want new, bigger, cooler fish. No need to ask for help they have been successful doing it this way so they apply it to a new bigger tank with bigger dreams. They may even hold meetings and share this info with other slower folks in our society.

So hey lets all hold hands, please people don't better yourselves by learning, heck we may even hug. Lets cuddle those who just skate around in life, maybe this will help them somehow or someway.

Because I would hate to give advise to someone and have them not understand it completly, lord they may have to ask could you please explain that better and or easier. Sorry Mr. Or Mrs. I Want To Learn, I have to treat you like a moron until I feel you are capable of digesting what I have to say without choking.

Like I said before, the ones who think a bit of information on a fish or 10 minutes of research is too much (because God knows they just spent the last 2 hours on Facebook) these people are part of the problem in our hobby today.

But sorry we can't call you a problem, that just isn't nice. And well society just doesn't like that. So we will continue to dumb-it-down, and sorry to those of you with a 4th grade education, you will have to sit through it with the rest of us even though you get it.


In any part of life research is the key, or you need to study you need to keep on learning.
But not with fish in a home tank, because we are so scared to scare these people off we would rather treat them like idiots. And yet we don't think these "types" of people are a problem, too much info is. we cuddle everyone from politicians to criminals, perhaps morons fit somewhere in the middle. Hug and cuddle them all I say.


Brian

 

I get your point, but this raises a question; what's better for the fish, and what's more likely to teach the person?
Letting the new aquarist fumble around because they simply aren't understanding the billions of fine details we're giving them...
or
Teaching new aquarists the same way we teach any other new skill, by starting out simple, and then, one by one, at a pace determined by each individual's learning curve, explaining the parts of the guideline that don't work?

In a perfect world, this discussion wouldn't be necessary. However, I think it's pretty obvious that this isn't a perfect world. Playing hardball with everyone is a good way to get ignored in the long run. In fact, that's the reason that Fishlore is here. When Mike created it, most of the other forums out there had people who would talk down to anyone who wasn't already an "expert" aquarist. They'd flood new aquarists with a bunch of info and an attitude that they should already know this if they had fish, the new aquarists would shut them out, and thus, the new aquarists would continue to fail.

 

Well, what could have been a lively discussion has now turned into something I really wonder why I am posting.

The guideline is just that, a "guideline." It is not a rule. It is merely the tiniest of tiptoe steps. It is the first hop on a diving board on a swimming pool if you will; a starting point.

Considering that most of us started out in this hobby in a VERY similar fashion, I think it's more than what I would call harsh to say people are morons for believing some of these things, at least in the beginning.

I wouldn't even say we have "society" to blame here either. If that was the case, would most of us have started out keeping fish with many horrible first time experiences? I'd put the blame on the largest group responsible for perpetuating the many myths involved in this hobby; and that is the manufacturers and big corporations who love to feature fish bowls or small tanks filled with an obscene number of goldfish on the front. I would also blame them for not appropriately training their employees with accurate information, as it is their responsibility to know their product. As all of us who post here well know, the largest source of inaccurate information comes from these stores, and new members come here begging for help because they trusted these places with the advice they were given; not because they didn't care or were stupid.

So yea, you could say I disagree quite a bit with some of the things said here.

 

Telling someone such a fish get this big likes to eat this and heres some links to even read about it I am sorry but I don't see that as flooding them with too much info or coming across as an expert or talking down to them.
If they can't process a few simple things about a fish without getting overloaded maybe a chia-pet is more their speed.

There is very simple basic info that can be given out without coming across wrong. I just think a bit of info about 2 or 3 fish is better info to send them on their way with that get 15 inches of fish for your 20gal tank as long as they are under this big (most of the time, but not always this should work).

We will never agree on this, which is actually good, however I don't think I have ever talked down to anyone here. Or overloaded them with too much technical info. I am far far far from an expert and don't pretent do be one.

I just don't get the hand holding that goes on, we send them out with the dumb dumb book for beginners, do we then hope they know about water changes and the other stuff too? Or they have the right sized fish for their tank so that is good enough for now to start? we will get into clean water and such like compatibility when they come back asking about help my fish are dying? Hopefully by then they have not become frustrated and giving up.


Brian

 

Well, what could have been a lively discussion has now turned into something I really wonder why I am posting.

.

I believe me and the other guy are discussing it. I hate the rule hands down and he believes in it. I have said why I don't like it and he has come back with how it works. I believe there are better ways, he thinks this is a great starting point.

I think its a lively discussion with two points of view that not everyone will agree with.
Perhaps so the water isn't stirred up me and him should have our chat in PM, but then where is the forum aspect to that? That way if someone doesn't agree with me or someone doesn't agree with him they can turn their heads and only go with what they already know. I am trying to read back and see where this has gotten away from a discussion and I can't seem to find it. A discussion wouldn't be helpful to anyone if he said something and I said you are so right buddy, then we are right back to being fish store employees who here one thing then spread it around right or wrong.

Neither of us said new people in the hobby are morons, we do agree however that those who don't want the info or better yet would not understand it, then perhaps the info should be dumbed down to their level as to not scare them away.


Brian

 

Interesting,
I never thought of myself as a moron. But as a Beginner I appreciated and read further with someone that treated me as a beginner, I lost interest very quickly listening to someone say "hey, this is a really complex hobby that takes a lot of learning and research and here is what you need to do, but If you are a beginner you probably will not get it." Yes, somemay be slower than others, but with our help in trying to make them understand at their OWN SPEED and not yours they can enjoy this hobby just as much. The one inch Rule certainly helped me get started, and at my own pace, I began to understand this rule was just a guideline and not a rule. I now understand more research is required within this hobby to go further with it. more questions need to be asked when preparing to stock your first 55 or 75 or 100gl tank. SO, I would like to thank all of you who have treated me as a beginner and gave me simple answers to my questions instead of treating me like a moron. If that was the case, I either wouldn't belong to this forum or would be out of the hobby all together.

 

The reason I said that had nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the "rule." The comment quoted was inspired by post number 43.

That's all I'm really going to say on the matter to clarify.

 

Telling someone such a fish get this big likes to eat this and heres some links to even read about it I am sorry but I don't see that as flooding them with too much info or coming across as an expert or talking down to them.

But that doesn't help them stock the tank (which is what we're talking about), unless you give them a guideline of how these things affect stocking.

If they can't process a few simple things about a fish without getting overloaded maybe a chia-pet is more their speed.

I think that's kind of harsh, particularly since we have some very young aquarists here. If it were a few simple things, I'd agree with you. However, understanding the true nature of stocking is not simple, and that's what this whole thing comes down to. It involves swimming space, bioload, personal space for territorial fish, feeding space for timid fish, adjustments for gravel, decoration, and plants, filtration, surface area and dissolved oxygen, the amount of water changes you want to do, your water source's parameters, etc...

Edit: Going back and reading over your posts, you seem to be taking this from the point that, if we suggest the 1" per gallon guideline to start with, then people have to stick with that until we move them on. This is not true. The information is here, and, as I have said, everyone learns at their own speed.
Look at it this way; take two kids who are new to science. Start one of them my way, teaching them the basics first, and then advancing at the kid's pace, whether it's Einstein-fast or extremely slow. Start the other one your way, putting all of the information in front of them and saying "here you go, this is what you need to know."
The first way isn't coddling, it's teaching.

Anyway, I've pretty much come full-circle by this point, so unless something new is said, I'm done here.

 

...I lost interest very quickly listening to someone say "hey, this is a really complex hobby that takes a lot of learning and research and here is what you need to do, but If you are a beginner you probably will not get it."

Very well put! This "rule" just like so many other fish keeping "rules", is not cast in stone.

I often just shake my head when browsing the fish forums and a new fish keeper asks for help. Very often the first thing they get is NO, NO, NO! You can't do that and you can't do this... why would anyone want to keep fish with such restrictions?

If there is one thing that I have learned in 40+ years of fish keeping it is this, for every rule of keeping fish, there are exceptions and workarounds.

Is the 1" rule a good rule? In my opinion, it's a good starting point. Once you grasp the concept, throw it out the window with most of the other "getting started" rules.

Dennis

 

I agree with all of you. I just think more could be added to it without killing the person.

My way is not to dump lots of info on anyone, I don't believe I have ever done that.

I don't agree with lots said, just as you don't agree with lots I say, does that make you wrong? Am I wrong? Noone is wrong I don't think, I thought people could take in more info than just the one inch deal, and sirdarksol pointed out to me that many can't.

And now that people have different opinions noone wants to talk, at what point did me and him get so far off base with our opinions on the subject. Should I follow suit and say that's all I have to say on the subject, because noone will agree with me. I wasn't looking for agreement I was giving my opinion.

 

And I think your opinion is well taken, I agree on several points you brought up. I think you might have lost us when you started speaking of morons. I don't believe, at least that is why I joined this forum instead of others, that this forum refers to anyone as a moron. Everyone understands each persons scale of learning is different than the next. I believe it is our intent to help as many people enjoy this hobby as much we do. which means we have to understand that the learning curve is different for me than it is for you and so on and so forth. earlier on this thread it was mentioned we have younger aquarist. That in itself tells me we need to teach as much as just give our opinion. Teaching doesn't start in the middle, it starts at the beginning where it is very basic and simple. The 1in. rule "guideline" is a starting point for the beginner. I think that others have pulled themselves from this thread because the subject was starting to get away from the original post. I respect your opinion, but just because someone doesn't get it as quick as you do, doesn't make them a moron. We have to respect everybody as individuals. The message in Post #43 was pretty harsh. No hard feelings, just trying to think of everyone. As was mentioned earlier, there are a lot of young Aquarist reading as well. As you said, Just My Opinion.

 

If that offended anyone that was not what I was aiming for.

I was simply saying we dumb it down so much, most people don't need it layed out like that, while some do I get that. I also didn't say anyone here is a moron, when we feel we can't even give advise without acting like we are dealing with someone who can't even read, we are treating them like morons.

Somewhere I said I am going to have to treat you like a moron until I know for sure you can handle more, or something along those lines. Because everyone believes oh no a new person can't retain much beyond the 1" deal at first, maybe treating them as a child rather than a moron should be used? I also said why not start with a bit more advise, not 42 pages worth, but a bit more. I also said if that person has trouble with it they can say hey I don't get it and or can you explain that better. (and I am not saying we must then dumb it down for that person. But we start out assuming anything we say will be over their heads, and in many cases that just isn't true.)
If someone asks about what to put in a new tank and you give 2-3 species that will work possibly a link or two, and that person is scared off by so much info, I stand by what I said about the hobby being better off without them.
They don't need a scientific write up, but some basic knowledge shouldn't hurt them, or be too much to chew on just because they are new.


Brian

 

I have 20 gallon semiaggressive tank with 5 tiger barbs, 3 black skirt tetras, 1 rainbow shark, 1 two inch baby blue gourami, and a placostumus. All are small right now. I do a 25 % h2o change every week and the water always tests well for everything. There r a lot of contradictory opinions out there about what to do as the fish grow. Please share your experiences/ideas.

My thought is that I could move the 3 black skirts into my community aquarium when all r full grown. Some say they will all b fine in there as adults as long as the water quality stays and frequent h2o changes continue...

 

You are wayyy over stocked. Do you know what kind of Pleco you have? Common plecos get 2ft long! I would not suggest adding Anything to that tank. Perhaps remove the rainbow shark, pleco and tiger barbs. Then up the Skirt tetra school.

 

The only thing that will get over 3 inches is the gourami. That is why I figured id b ok moving the tetras to another tank. I'm not adding any more to this one. I have 3 tanks.

Do u understand my question? All r between 1-2 inches right now. They r not currently overstocked. When they r full grown some will have to b moved out. The 3 black skirts can go in my community tank and the gourami can go in my cichlid tank. To clarify my question (sorry): do I need to take them out before they get to the point where there is 20 inches of fish? Does that make more sense?

 

Welcome to Fishlore, semi-aggressive.

No, the 1" per gallon is not hard science. It is a very, very simplified guideline that can help with stocking small tropical fish. The gourami, pleco, and shark do not fit the guideline at all. All of them grow too big for the guideline to work. As fish grow larger, they don't just grow in length, but also in width and height. This translates to a geometric increase in mass, and thus a geometric increase in waste production.

The only thing that will get over 3 inches is the gourami. That is why I figured id b ok moving the tetras to another tank. I'm not adding any more to this one. I have 3 tanks.

Unless you have one of the fancier plecos (like a clown pleco, or a peckoltia), your pleco is going to get larger than 3". The rainbow shark is also going to get larger than 3" (and will become aggressive over time, as it needs more swimming space than a 20 gallon provices).

Do u understand my question? All r between 1-2 inches right now. They r not currently overstocked. When they r full grown some will have to b moved out. The 3 black skirts can go in my community tank and the gourami can go in my cichlid tank. To clarify my question (sorry): do I need to take them out before they get to the point where there is 20 inches of fish? Does that make more sense?

Few people are going to answer a question about "what is considered overstocked?" and not consider the future growth of the fish in question. Most of us have a lot of experience with "I'm planning on moving the fish once it grows too large." I've had that exact plan more than once, and have lost a number of fish because of it. The best laid plans of mice and aquarists and all. Therefore, my answer is, for the present, the same as it would be in the future. The pleco (presuming it's a common pleco) doesn't belong in that tank. Neither does the rainbow shark. The skirt tetras will be much more comfortable with a full school of at least five.

 

HI SA, welcome to Fishlore

The 1 inch per gallon rule is a very loose guide to stocking, and should only really be considered when stocking nano-fish (under 1.5"). The rule (I mean guide) is also based on the adult size of the fish, most fish we purchase are juvenilles, and will grow. IMO, a better guide would be 1" per 3 gallons, but even then, that's subjective at best.

More important than volume is the shape of the aquarium and the swim space it allows for the fish. A standard 20H is 2 foot wide, but 20G hex tank will be much narrower and higher. Both hold 20G of water, but the hex would most likely (IMO) be unsuitable for a gourami.

EDIT: Also, what sort of cichlid tank is it? The gourami may not be suited to the parameters of your cichlid tank.

EDIT by SDS

 

I use this on all my tanks great tool.

 

I use this on all my tanks great tool.

Agreed, it's a great tool, but it's also not gospel. It's definitely great for comparing parameters, potential aggression/tempremant problems, filtration etc.

I always use aqadvisor as a guide on stocking plans, to help get me in the ball park. If aqadvisor suggests I'm ok, I'll then ask the question of others to confirm it should be ok.

 

Thank you all! The sucker fish is a teminicki. The cichlid tank is just 3 rams and an umbrella cichlid. I appreciate your experience. Being the sick person I am, I'm actually making room for a 50 gal tank as well as the three 20s. Its not my fault! Don't judge me for being powerless over fish! But u r right, that I can have really great intentions that may not work as planned. Thannks everyone!!!

 

Just to add to aquaadvisor, use it to get an idea, and then ask the forum for futher help, AqAd is only good for so much.

The tetra need a school of 5-6, the gourami...not sure, is he a blue 3-spot or a powder blue dwarf gourami. The shark can become quite literally larger then the tank, and he will not grow up in it due to stunting.

 

I use this on all my tanks great tool.

Disagree totally. There is so much stuff that aqadvisor doesn't know, and there are too many mistakes and gaps in the program. Much better to simply do as semi-aggressive is doing here and learn about the fish you want to keep in order to develop your own stocking list.

 

I don't personally consider the "one inch per gallon" rule/guideline trustworthy at all. Would you put a 10 inch fish in a 10 gallon tank? Of course not! It wouldn't even have room to turn around. I think (depending on the fish, of course) that 10 1-inch long fish would even be too much. I don't consider it in the slightest when thinking about stocking a tank.

 

I don't personally consider the "one inch per gallon" rule/guideline trustworthy at all. Would you put a 10 inch fish in a 10 gallon tank? Of course not! It wouldn't even have room to turn around. I think (depending on the fish, of course) that 10 1-inch long fish would even be too much. I don't consider it in the slightest when thinking about stocking a tank.

Actually, 10 1-inch fish probably would work pretty well. I have 6 danio tinwinis in a 10 gallon tank, and they don't really utilize all of the tank's space, nor are they a strain on the bioload (and that's without a HOB or sponge filter. It's just filtered by the bacteria that grow on the plants, and to a lesser extent by the plants themselves). If I put some active filtration in the tank, I could easily fit four more without pushing it either for swimming space or bioload.
As I noted above, it is helpful, particularly for new aquarists, for stocking tanks with small tropical fish. Is it ideal? No. But there's so much to learn when learning how to stock tanks, and the human brain can only assimilate so much at a time before it shuts down and refuses to learn on a topic for awhile. Two ways to deal with this: Let someone else stock for you (which many people on Fishlore do, essentially) or use an oversimplified version that will get you through your first tank without killing your fish while you learn the finer points of stocking science and art.

Me, I use one cubic inch of fish per gallon of water in order to get an idea of bioload for a tank.

 

Me, I use one cubic inch of fish per gallon of water in order to get an idea of bioload for a tank.

Interesting, I've not heard about that one...I'm not so good at estimating fish volumes yet

The issue for me is that it doesn't take into account so many things - temperament, waste production, area of the tank the fish occupies, etc. You wouldn't keep two clown plecos in a 10 gallon, nor two tiger barbs and a handful of neons. Obviously I do see its benefits, as it would help prevent major overstocking of a tank, but I think once a novice becomes a bit more knowledgeable, a combination of factors needs to be considered, not just size.

 

Oh, definitely. I'm not saying that it's the only thing. That's why I refuse to call it a rule. ;D

 

Good morning,

A few links for you to check out:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/one-inch-per-gallon-rule.36789/





Ken

 

It seems that every so often we get into a conversation about the 1 inch per gallon rule, so I figured it would be nice to see who believes it, who uses it, who somewhat agrees with it, and who flat out doesn't believe it.

 

I agree when talking about smaller to medium sized fish. The bigger the fish, the less true it gets.

 

I agree up to a point. If we are talking about young fish or certain types of fish (an Oscar is huge messy eater) and their habits can effect the outcome. That Oscar is going to need a 90-125 gallon tank and if you want to keep a mate-maybe more than that! IMO-as a basic rule it is better than no rule but caution is always the key.
The flip side is something like stocking with Arican Cichlids some people will recommend overstocking to stop aggression. Others will say low stocking is okay.
Bottom line IMO is that anyone new to the fish keeping process should understock to avoid the huge water changes that are required on the upper end of stocking!

 

I use it as a benchmark, i.e the benchmark would be a cycled aquarium with a simple HOB meant for that sized aquarium. If I have an angel (6-10), 6 fancy guppies (2-3) and 3 gold dusted mollys (3-4), averaging around 33 inches in my 29 heavily planted aquarium, then I'm fine.

I feel like it's said to be inaccurate and shouldn't be used, but in reality most people have a correct sized filter and hopefully cycled their tank, which means anything better (plants or more filtration) will only allow them to extend the number of inches. This rule only works if the user understands the temperament of fishes and can judge correctly their aquarium.

 

When people use that rule they mostly just look at the length of the fish, sometimes they forget the total volume of that fish. IT'S NOT JUST THE LEGNTH, PLZ ALSO LOOK AT THE WHOLE VOLUME! Lol.

 

I go by bio load and aggression. Inch per gallon is as obsolete as watts per gallon

 

I use it as a "general" rule. With so many other exceptions though it seems. As other mentioned Bioload is important. Aggression as well. I look at the over all footprint of the fish in question. A black khulie even at juvienille is 1-2 inches long, but has half the bioload of other fish it's size.

Then when it comes to goldfish, and the big cichlids all "1 inch" rules are off.

 

A "Rule" is something that is always true, every one seems to agree that its not always true so why to people still call it a rule, I don't understand.
I don't buy into all this garbage of different shades of right or wrong. Something is either right or its wrong, no if's but's or maybe's. In MY opinion People make up excuses for too many things now days.

 

When people use that rule they mostly just look at the length of the fish, sometimes they forget the total volume of that fish. IT'S NOT JUST THE LEGNTH, PLZ ALSO LOOK AT THE WHOLE VOLUME! Lol.

Going by total volume dosen't always work either (IMHO). According to this rule, then my 150 gallon is WAY too small for my 3 oscars ! 14" L x 8" H x 2 1/2" W = 280 sq in x 3 oscars = 840 sq in, so according to the total volume, I need to get at least a 840 gallon tank ?

 

The 1 Inch per gallon rule has very little to do with what species, aggression, or any of the other factors that some people use to guage the amount of fish in their tank tanks.
The more relevant method of stocking a tank is to calculate the surface area of the water to air interface, as this is critical in determining the amount of dissolved Oxygen needed to support life
I have always employed the following, for Tropical Freshwater Tanks
For every 1 inch of adult fish length to be stocked, a surface area of 12 Square Inches is required
Overcrowded and over stocked tanks not only look bad, they are a recipe for bad water conditions, disease, and poor filtration

 

Thank you all for these insights. I find it interesting that this topic gets brought up so often and how some "stocking" sites promote such a rule without the obvious caveats.

Personally I agree with smee82, if something is a rule it should always be a rule. That's kind of the point of a rule in my humble opinion.

Now in some threads I've seen people say that this particular 1 inch rule applies more to small fish, but it leaves out very active fish like the zebra danio that needs more than an inch. It also doesn't exactly apply to other small fish like endlers.

It seems to me from the threads that I've seen and read recently that most newbies seem to use this rule to justify stuffing their tanks to capacity.

When I started in fish keeping earlier this year, this "rule" was the very first thing that was told to me at the big chain store, and it caused my first experience to be a very bad one. Luckily I found this forum before I got totally frustrated and gave up.

I'm hoping that many people will read this thread and get a better understanding of the 1 inch per gallon thought.