Plant fertilizer

photoman54

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I have been in this hobby now for 15 years. Gone through a lot in those years. Currently have 2-40gal and 20 gal tanks. One 40 gal has co2 and Chihiros wrgb pro light. I want to grow red plants. Every tank I have has plants. I have bought plants that have red leaves only to have them wither and die. My original light was a Fluval Plant 3.0. Since I bought the Chihiros the red plants have grown nicely. But my problem is a bit of Black beard algae. I snip off the leaves with it on. I do 60% every other week. 30% the other week. I use Nilocg Thrive plant food as well as nitrogen,potassium and iron. I cannot get the plant food dialed in correctly. I use the directions on the bottles. There has to be something I am missing. Is there an instrument to measure plant food? I would like to here from you Thanks
 

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SeattleRoy might have a few comments. It would probably help if you discuss if you are injecting co2 and/or if you ahve soft or had base water.

BBA and Cyano are two mysteries for myself. I've have a lot of aquariums and in 2 of them bba broke out in a massive way - one i had converted from tap to ro and figured it was chemistry related from the transition but the other was ro from the start. Cyano seems more related to decay as i get a lot on decaying leaves.

Anyway hopefully you will get some insights from comments - i know bba comes now and then but i've never seen a consistent pattern as to what triggers it though it was more common with higher levels of co2.
 

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You can measure the presence of a mineral in water, but you cannot measure the amount stored in tissue or complexed in substrate, unless you work with tracers and destructive tissue analysis. Hence the best instrument by far is the human eye.

Managing plant food can be a challenge in high energy tanks. That's the appeal of EI dosing; ensuring unlimited supply of all minerals, without much regard for ratios and with the belief that plant food by itself is not responsible for algae. I second the latter.

The red plants you are referring to are no doubt perennial stem plants such as macrandra, wallichii, inclinata, rotundifolia, etc. In low CO2 conditions, these are all prone to shedding leaves from bottom to top. Hence the single most effective way to delay this is through CO2 injection.

The most likely reason for algae in these tanks is not so much the minerals/plant food (algae hardly need any to grow anyhow), but rather the combination of high light intensity and organics produced by plants in overdrive.

The red pigment is caused by high light intensity (or some other stressor such a nitrogen depletion). Hence, you don't want to sacrifice on high light. That leaves constant dilution of organics through water changes.

A very nice way to start up a high energy tank is to work with CO2 injection under low to moderate light intensity. This gives a much slower but dense growth, without the red colors ...and without the algae. Once your tank is highly dense, crank up the light intensity, adopt a more intensive water change regime and turn green to red.

I've kept large high energy tanks in the past and gave up on them 5 or so years ago, becoming tired of the trimming, re-planting and the water changes. Recently, I started a high energy tank myself. Only 10 gallons.

Cheers.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #4
Thanks so much. I have co2.

And Chicago water. Ph7.8. There isn’t dead leaves around. The hobbies that do aquascaping never talk about BBA. They know something we don’t I think.

You can measure the presence of a mineral in water, but you cannot measure the amount stored in tissue or complexed in substrate, unless you work with tracers and destructive tissue analysis. Hence the best instrument by far is the human eye.

Managing plant food can be a challenge in high energy tanks. That's the appeal of EI dosing; ensuring unlimited supply of all minerals, without much regard for ratios and with the belief that plant food by itself is not responsible for algae. I second the latter.

The red plants you are referring to are no doubt perennial stem plants such as macrandra, wallichii, inclinata, rotundifolia, etc. In low CO2 conditions, these are all prone to shedding leaves from bottom to top. Hence the single most effective way to delay this is through CO2 injection.

The most likely reason for algae in these tanks is not so much the minerals/plant food (algae hardly need any to grow anyhow), but rather the combination of high light intensity and organics produced by plants in overdrive.

The red pigment is caused by high light intensity (or some other stressor such a nitrogen depletion). Hence, you don't want to sacrifice on high light. That leaves constant dilution of organics through water changes.

A very nice way to start up a high energy tank is to work with CO2 injection under low to moderate light intensity. This gives a much slower but dense growth, without the red colors ...and without the algae. Once your tank is highly dense, crank up the light intensity, adopt a more intensive water change regime and turn green to red.

I've kept large high energy tanks in the past and gave up on them 5 or so years ago, becoming tired of the trimming, re-planting and the water changes. Recently, I started a high energy tank myself. Only 10 gallons.

Cheers.
So it could be not enough nitrogen. Should I dose nutrients more often. I had co2 for a year before high lights. Thanks
 
Your red plants already look red, correct?

The issue is algae/BBA, correct?

Under high light, algae seem to correlate strongly with weak plants, debris, organics.

Weak plants correlate with high light and low CO2 or with fluctuating CO2 levels during the light period, or perhaps with a missing mineral; but I strongly believe the role of light intensity and CO2 concentration to be much greater.

If plants look dense and well-colored, benefiting from the high energy, the amount of organic waste produced is significant. Not using an airstone in the evening and the beginnings of the night, would show a thick slimy layer of biofilm at the water surface. I'm currently performing large water changes twice a week to keep the organics low.

"Aquascaping" typically shows you one side. Not so much or only briefly the major water changes, maintenance, trimming.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
You can measure the presence of a mineral in water, but you cannot measure the amount stored in tissue or complexed in substrate, unless you work with tracers and destructive tissue analysis. Hence the best instrument by far is the human eye.

Managing plant food can be a challenge in high energy tanks. That's the appeal of EI dosing; ensuring unlimited supply of all minerals, without much regard for ratios and with the belief that plant food by itself is not responsible for algae. I second the latter.

The red plants you are referring to are no doubt perennial stem plants such as macrandra, wallichii, inclinata, rotundifolia, etc. In low CO2 conditions, these are all prone to shedding leaves from bottom to top. Hence the single most effective way to delay this is through CO2 injection.

The most likely reason for algae in these tanks is not so much the minerals/plant food (algae hardly need any to grow anyhow), but rather the combination of high light intensity and organics produced by plants in overdrive.

The red pigment is caused by high light intensity (or some other stressor such a nitrogen depletion). Hence, you don't want to sacrifice on high light. That leaves constant dilution of organics through water changes.

A very nice way to start up a high energy tank is to work with CO2 injection under low to moderate light intensity. This gives a much slower but dense growth, without the red colors ...and without the algae. Once your tank is highly dense, crank up the light intensity, adopt a more intensive water change regime and turn green to red.

I've kept large high energy tanks in the past and gave up on them 5 or so years ago, becoming tired of the trimming, re-planting and the water changes. Recently, I started a high energy tank myself. Only 10 gallons.

Cheers.

Your red plants already look red, correct?

The issue is algae/BBA, correct?

Under high light, algae seem to correlate strongly with weak plants, debris, organics.

Weak plants correlate with high light and low CO2 or with fluctuating CO2 levels during the light period, or perhaps with a missing mineral; but I strongly believe the role of light intensity and CO2 concentration to be much greater.

If plants look dense and well-colored, benefiting from the high energy, the amount of organic waste produced is significant. Not using an airstone in the evening and the beginnings of the night, would show a thick slimy layer of biofilm at the water surface. I'm currently performing large water changes twice a week to keep the organics low.

"Aquascaping" typically shows you one side. Not so much or only briefly the major water changes, maintenance, trimming.
Yes they are red. I bought them that way. When you say "weak" plants. Are you talking plants not growing? My green plants grow. Some are slow growing Anubious. Also Vals. Should I dose ferts a couple times a week? Not just once a week like I'm doing.
 
Yes they are red. I bought them that way. When you say "weak" plants. Are you talking plants not growing?

Certainly not. Slow growth is not the same as poor health. A plant can be healthy, well-colored and structurally sound without putting on large amounts of new biomass. Simply reduce the light intensity. But for red pigments, you want to push the intensity of course.

My green plants grow. Some are slow growing Anubious. Also Vals. Should I dose ferts a couple times a week? Not just once a week like I'm doing.

I think most will argue to dose more often than less.

I follow very different regimes for high energy (moderate to strong light + CO2) versus low enery (dim light, no CO2).

For the high energy, I perform a weekly 50% water change on basis of RO water and something similar to Tom Barr's GH booster (calcium, magnesium, potassium and sulphates). In between I dose nitrates, potassium and phosphates, twice. Once a week a tiny bit of chelated trace elements.

I see you are using Nilocg Thrive; I checked it; it is missing calcium. I assume you are using regular tap water containing calcium?

Dosing once could be just fine, if twice is feasible, I would choose so.

So it could be not enough nitrogen.
Red coloration is caused by anthocyanins to reduce photo-oxidative stress. This stress is also caused when nitrogen is limited, as excess energy reacts with oxygen instead of being used for carbon fixation.

So limiting nitrogen is a trick to improve red coloration. But it is species specific. I'd rather focus on just light intensity.
 
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