FishStix

Just wanted to post and say hello to all... I am a newbie!

I have a 35 gallon hexagon tank that has been empty for quite a while and I would like to start it up. I am basically starting with no knowledge as it has been probably around 15 or so years since I've had fish and at that time my Mom was the one taking care of them.

I have been buying up the equipment I will need.... so far I have ordered a Magnum 350 Deluxe filter, Python No Spill Gravel Cleaner, Water Testing Kit, Tree Stump Decor. I am going to get the rest of my stuff from a LFS in the next week or so.

I have been reading a LOT of information for beginners. The more I read, the more confused I get as far as the new tank nitrogen cycle. Hopefully I will get it right. I definitely will go the fishless route for the cycle.

I'm sure I'll have questions about all sorts of things in the very near future!

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore

Glad to hear your getting back into the hobby and starting a fish less cycle.
The members have a wide range of knowledge and are always happy to help.

agabr123

welcome to fishlore!

here's the most basic explanation of the nitrogen cycle i can give you. fish produce waste, which breaks down into ammonia. ammonia is toxic to fish. bacteria will begin to grow in your tank in order to convert that ammonia into nitrite. nitrIte is equally as toxic to fish. after a while, even more bacteria will grow in your tank in order to convert the nitrIte into nitrate. MUCH less toxic to your fish, but still needs to be kept under 20ppm (preferrably closer to 5-10ppm) with weekly or bi-weekly water changes (depending on how heavily stocked or live plants).

basically, you are cycled if your tank shows 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrIte, and some nitrates (5-20ppm). it's possible for you to have 0ppm nitrAtes in a tank if there are live plants, because live plants eat nitrAte, some more so than others.

hopefully that makes more sense oh, and you have to have a constant source of ammonia in order to get through the cycle and keep the tank cycled, during the cycle you can use either fish food, a piece of raw shrimp, or pure bottled ammonia (NO surfactant, if you shake the bottle it shouldn't fizz or bubble more than water would) and then after the cycle the fish will provide enough ammonia.

adding fish too quickly can kill the cycle though (lol, sorry for the info overload!) because if you add too much ammonia then there could not necessarily be enough bacteria to process all of it. that's why it's recommended (when stocking a new tank), to add fish at two week intervals, and no more than 2-3 fish at a time

Emory

Welcome back to the hobby and kudos to you for arming yourself with knowledge first! Looks like Alex has you covered with cycling information. When you and your Mom were in it about 15 years ago do you remember anything about setting up a tank? I don't know when "fishless cycling" came about but I certainly didn't know about it until I recently re-entered the hobby. That is where the bottled ammonia from the store comes in that Alex mentioned above. What kinds of fish are you thinking about? Oh, we love pictures here. I think it is just us living vicariously and in a way keeping our MTS from going out of control.

Welcome back!

Chrisson

Yeah I was also confused with the nitrogen cycle at first but I read more about each seperate thing like Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate and it was more clear to me.

FishStix

With the ammonia... do you not do any water changes until after you are fully cycled and then do a 30% change before you add fish? Or do you do water changes all along? At what point would I add something like Prime?

Is the Tetra Safe Start product in a good way or bad way by most members here? I am considering it to speed up getting the cycle complete (though I don't want to add any fish at the start - only after the cycle is actually complete).

I like the idea of live plants but I'm a little afraid of them. I was thinking of using some fake and some live to start. Can I add the live plants in the beginning or do I need to wait until after the cycle is complete?

agabr123

if you're doing a fishless cycle (which IMO is the only way to go) then you don't want to do any water changes until you are ready to add your fish at the end of the cycle. you can use a full dose of prime when you first add all of the water to the tank (whatever amount of gallons the tank is, go ahead and add that much prime). and then you're right, a 30% change before adding fish.

tetra safe start has gone both ways for many members, it's great if you don't plan on using fish and using a different source of ammonia, because that way even if it doesn't work exactly as planned none of your fish will be harmed. and either way it should still help your cycle along a bit faster even if you can't add fish right at the beginning.

you can definitely add live plants at the beginning, they actually help the cycle quite a bit. some have done a "silent cycle" where their tanks were heavily planted enough to take care of all of the ammonia/nitrite and keep the nitrAte very low. but i wouldn't recommend counting on that for a beginner.

when choosing live plants, you'll want to figure out your WPG (watts per gallon) of lighting. say for example you have a 20 gallon tank and two 10 watt bulbs. you would have 20 watts of lighting and 20 gallons of water, so your WPG would be 1. that means you want low light plants. low light plants are good from anywhere between 1-2 WPG, medium light plants are anywhere between 2-3 WPG, and high light plants are 3+ WPG. low/medium light plants are generally the hardiest and easiest to take care of. i have java fern, java moss, and anubias myself which are REALLY easy to take care of, and i have NO planting skills whatsoever

FishStix

Emory, I don't remember much at all about the setting up or taking care of the tank from back except the occasional bucket brigade of changing water (and I know it wasn't near as often as is now recommended!). I do remember they got ick one time. I'm doubtful as to if she did the whole cycling process, I'll have to ask her!! ...lol, it was probably more like 20 years now that I think about it (I am 32 now)!

What types of fish to get is a big question which we are still trying to decide. We do want to keep mostly small, peaceful types. Hubby and I both like Neon Tetras and Black and Dalmation Mollies so are those good ones to start out with? I like the Pearl Gourami which would probably be the largest we would like to go. He likes the sharks...I'm not sure if there are kinds that are small, and safe to have with the others I see a lot of people on here mention cories so I want to look into them. What about Rosy or Tiger Barbs - are they too aggressive for neons and mollies? I also like the looks of the Otocinclus Catfish, Boesemani Rainbow, and Praecox Rainbow, and a few others.... So obviously I know I can't have them all and I'm trying to figure out whose temperaments go together along with water conditions etc. I don't even know how many of each to get when I do decide - I know neons like to school so I was thinking around 6 of them, but will the Gourami be happy as just 1 or do I need 2? And what about the Mollies?? I definitely don't want to overcrowd, but I do want a variety... (and I know I am to add only a few at a time!)

As far as photos - Photography is a big hobby of mine so I will be posting pics, rest assured!!!

FishStix

aga, I definitely want to go fishless for the cycle.

If I used the Safe Start, would I then proceed with adding the ammonia and just keep testing until it is right? And when it was right, do the 30% water change? Would I add the prime in at the beginning in that scenrio too?

Lighting is something I haven't studied yet. I know my tank only takes one bulb - and I am open to suggestions as to what bulb to buy! The tank is 35 gal. The plants you mentioned sound like they may be good for me to start out with - it looks like they take moderate light? We saw some banana plants at our LFS and loved them (they are moderate light)!

agabr123

hmm, okay well first things first

1. the gourami will be happy just as one, generally they get pretty aggressive and territorial if there are two male gouramis, so it's either just one or one male and 2-3 females at least, and IMO you don't have room for that with the pearls in your tank, so just one would work.
2. the pearl gourami would definitely work with mollies, who do best in a trio (i think).
3. i'd say no on the tiger barbs, what would be a great idea (if you get another tank ) would be a 55 gallon tank with a big school of tiger barbs (12-15) and a red tail shark (RTS). the barbs won't bother the RTS, and even if they did he will be aggressive enough to hold his own, definitely, and vice versa.
3. otos would also work great in your 35 with the one pearl and three mollies, i'd say you could have three or five otos.
4. the temperaments of the bosemani and praecox rainbow would be fine with the pearl, mollies, and otos, but IMO it would overstock you a bit to have a full school of those. i'd go with 6 of one of the smaller varieties of tetra, or rasbora, or danio.

so, to put it all together, for your 35 IMO you could have

1 pearl gourami
3 mollies (i'd stay away form the sailfin though, as they get up to two inches larger than the black or dalmations that you mentioned)
6 small schooling fish (neon tetras for example)
5 otos

that would put you at exactly 35 inches of fish

agabr123

with the safe start, i would just add 2-4ppm of ammonia daily and NOT test your water for at least 7 days, and don't do any water changes. at the end of 7 days, test your water and see where you are, and that will help determine if you're done cycling or if you need to continue adding ammonia. if, at the end of 7 days, you have 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrIte, 5-20ppm nitrAte, then you're cycled and you can do a water change and add SOME of the fish (not all, otherwise you'll crash the cycle). you would still add the prime at the beginning in this scenario.

that depends, do you know if your hood can take fluorescent or incandescent lighting or both? if it takes both, definitely go with the fluorescent. other than that i'm not very familiar with lighting, so hopefully someone else can answer that

Iron waffle

flourescent is better for planted tanks. full spectrum lighting, i believe is the best. most hoods take both incandescent and flourescent, so it's just a matter of choosing what you want to have.

aquarist48

Welcome to Fish Lore! Do you have a friend with an established aquarium that you could possibly get some gravel or part of their filter sponge or bio media from? If so, this will SEED your tank giving the cycle a jump start and get your started on a much faster cycle. It will still take some time to establish your own cycle but seeding it will surely help you and the tank. Have patience....Good luck.

scootfish

WELCOME TO THE FORUM




Be patient and use the advice given, it saved my fishies. +1 to fishlore!

FishStix

Hi again all...

Thank you for the suggestions on the fish!! Which type would be best to start with - the three mollies maybe?

I think I will try the Safe Start with ammonia! When you say 2-4ppm what does that mean exactly?

The old bulb that is still in the hood is a flourescent one....I'm not sure if it takes incandescent... but if flourescent is better for the plants then I'll look for that...full spectrum....any brands better than others?

I don't really know anyone that has a tank unfortunately!

It's all slowly making more and more sense...I'm glad to have found this forum! Thank you for all the advice!

Oh, and my husband can't believe all this you have to go through to set up a tank! He wants to know how his goldfish he had when he was a kid lived so long (The kind in the small bowl, no filter or anything). lol, I don't know how to explain that one, I just know this is the way it is! :-)

FishStix

When referring to a schooling fish - how many make a school - or does it depend on what type of fish you are talking about?

agabr123

generally 6 fish is the minimum for a school, but i suppose it does depend on the type of fish

FishStix

are there any sharks that would be safe with the others (In case hubby doesn't give up on them?)

agabr123

IMO a hex is too small for any of the different sharks since it doesn't have much of a footprint and sharks need lots of long bottom space to swim. if you were to get a standard 29 or a 55 then you could have a red tail shark

FishStix

okay okay :-)

One more question for the night (then I'm going to bed because I have to get up for WORK tomorrow - got laid off 4 months ago and FINALLY landed a new job today!!!)

Do I need some kind of air bubbler thing in my tank?


(Is it okay that I'm asking questions here, or am I supposed to move over the the beginner section now??)

agabr123

congrats on your new job

you don't have to have an air stone or bubble wand permanently, but i would go ahead and get one. if you ever need to medicate the tank or treat for ICH by raising the temperature to 84 then you want to add an airstone/bubble wand for the extra oxygen.

FishStix

Thank you for all of your help. Now I'm just waiting on my online orders to arrive so I can set everything up!!!

agabr123

you're welcome pictures are mandatory!

FishStix

Alex,
When you say 2-4 PPM of ammonia, I'm not sure how much that means??
Thanks!

agabr123

well if you're using pure ammonia (when you shake it there should be no fizz or bubbles or anything like that, and NO surfactant, just ammonia and water) you kind of have to add a few drops, wait a minute or so, and then test the water to see what the levels are at (i'd check through the rest of the thread but API freshwater master test kit is the best one, sorry if i already told you that ) eventually you'll get a pretty good idea of how much ammonia you have to add in order to get the level between 2-4ppm. i'll have to find the thread that gives a better explanation of this

EDIT: here's the thread, hopefully this helps
who's good with math?