Tankerini

Could someone please explain "buffer/buffering"?

I did look it up in the fishlore dictionary but really am none the wiser, as to what effects this in water in the first place and whether you can do anything prior to having too add some type of powder/chemical.

Thanks

KyWildFish

Alright here's my best lamen explanation of a buffer. A buffer is used as an agent that stabilizes pH, most often for a biological system. It works by contributing to the ion exchange that causes something to be acidic or basic. The buffer allows you to add something without changing its pH too dramatically.
The best one line explanation is : A buffer gives more fudge room when adding something with a different pH. If your buffer is low, I would suggest adding more to stabilize your tank. To much buffer can have a bunch of effects, so use them sparingly if you add.

Oil_Fan

The only reason you should need a buffer is to correct your Ph level. At least I know in my case that when I add calcium for my corals, it will take my Ph down from 8.4 to 7.8.

I'm not real sure on exactly why or the chemistry behind it though.

Tankerini

Thanks guys!

Shawnie

cant answer on SW tanks, but in freshwater, chemicals arent recommended to mess with the ph either way...a steady ph is better than one that changes all the time..fish acclimate well to all ranges if this is a sw tank, ignore anything i said

Sabi

Interesting. So what would you do if your calcium levels are low?
And i'm not sure if i remember correctly, but if RO water is used shouldn't calcium buffer etc be used because most of the chemicals are taken out?

Tankerini

Ok that was a bit confusing sabi

I think oil fan meant he uses the buffer to counteract the effects of adding the calcium. I assume he adds the calcium for some of his tank buddies not because he has purified water or RO/DI water that has been stripped of its chemicals.

Tankerini

As kywildfish said about the buffer having negative effects if used frequently how do you get around this when you need to use supplements for your chosen tank inhabitants?

Tankerini

So do all the supplements i.e calcium, magneisium, iodine or whatever effect your ph? If so do you always have to add the buffer prior to adding a supplement?

Tankerini

Ok came across this, which explained it better;

alkalinity
This test determines how stable your tank water is relative to a shifting pH. It can be thought of as your tank's buffering capacity or it's ability to keep the pH level stable. In most saltwater tanks you want this reading to be in the 7-12 DKH range.

Before I just looked up Buffer in the fishlore dictionary.
Buffer is a powder or chemical used to change the alkalinity of aquarium water so that it can resist changes in the aquarium pH. Saltwater aquariums often need buffer agents added because they are skimmed off or used up. These buffering agents usually consist of carbonate and bicarbonate. Baking soda can also be used as a buffering agent.

This site really is great, it has all the info you need its just knowing what to search under and where to look on the site.

Tankerini

Oil fan,

If you go on this thread can you give us your opinion on post 8# and 9#

Thanks

Sabi

I suppose it is..What i meant to say is i read that tap water has some calcium in it already and by using saltmix it will buffer the calcium levels to more or less 400-450ppm. But RO water has decidedly less because of the RO process. So using calcium buffers is supposed to be recommended. I think post 8 quite sums it up. I've a problem with my ph which is staying at the 8.0-8.2 mark but havn't yet started using any buffers beside calcium which i used once last night. So i'm curious to know what you guys opinion on the use of buffers are.

Tankerini

Hi Sabi,

ChecK out C-Balance and kalkwasser, they both have their own kind of buffer. But thats if you are adding calcium. Otherwise it would be just a straight buffer.

Oh yeah thanks for confusing me again lol...You are saying calcium buffer as if its one and the same thing? Im confused, Is it not either calcium supplement or a buffer.

Although the C-Balance and Kalkwasser do both, which is what Im looking into at the moment.

Its just a case of checking out this site and its forums or just

Everyone on this post please check out my thread and pass opinion if you do or have ever used these.

C-Balance vs Kalkwasser

Oil_Fan

You're not the only one confused!!

I do use RO water along with salt mix. I'm using Oceanic Natural Sea Salt Mix. According to Drs Foster and Smith's website on the product:

Natural buffering action with KH stabilizers.
High calcium and magnesium concentrations - Optimal growth of fish and invertebrates.

I'm going to stop off on the way home from work and pick up a couple more test kits. I'll check and see what my readings are for calcium and Kh. It's entirely possible that between my water changes and me adding calcium that it's causing a drop in the Ph...which why I've had to add some buffer.

Oil_Fan

I just read this review of the salt mix that I use:

With me adding even more calcium, that might be why I've getting this red algae on some rocks.

Tankerini

Well theres a new thread....Which salt mix provides the best balance for water in ph and alkalinity!!! Check new posts guys!

Sabi

Ok guys, maybe it's because i dont know what i'm saying...

Saltmix has the calcium buffer/supplement already?
Separate buffers are used if calcium levels are low even tho you are doing water changes?
Am i right?

Oil_Fan

Not quite. Salt mix contain various elements. In this case we're talking about calcium. According what I found the other day, the mix I use already contains a high amount of calcium. Now other less expensive salt mixes probably has less calcium.

Since I have a number of corals, they need calcium in the water among other things. Since I didn't know the specifics to my salt mix, I was adding additional calcium to my tank. This was done on the advice of my LFS. Now also according to my LFS, adding calcium will lower your pH levels. This is the reason for the buffer to bring it back up.

At lunch today I went and picked up a calcium test kit and kh one as well. When I get home later tonight, I'll test my water and should have a better idea as what is going on.

Tankerini

Ok guys check this thread out

calcium supplement

Might help you out with choosing a salt.

Also still waiting for people to leave comments on my other thread

Which Salt mix?

Invite people you know have sw tanks, so they can leave there opinions.

Sabi

Alright, i get what you meant now.

Oil_Fan

Ok...so after a couple days of testing, here's what I now know:

My tank
Current calcium levels: 480 PPM

I then mixed up a fresh batch of salt water yesterday and tested today. The calcium level in there is also 480 ppm. The ocean itself runs around 420 ppm from what I've read. So basically I'm taking what is already high levels of calcium and adding more so it never gets a chance to drop down.

What I do know is that adding the extra calcium is affecting my pH levels. I think I'll stop adding the extra calcium and see what happens. Hopefully then my green brain will rebound. That's the one coral that isn't looking too great.

BTW, I'm using Oceanic Natural Sea Salt mix.

Tankerini

Strange, you would'nt think the salt mix your using would give you such a high calcium level. Whats your SG, PH/alkalinity? (On a fresh batch not the water already in the tank).

Oil_Fan

SG was 1.023. I'll check the other 2 tonight.

Oil_Fan

I did test my Ph/alkalinity on a fresh batch of SW. pH is very low at 7.4. I don't remember the number of alkalinity but it was also low. I then tested the pH on my water after it ran through my RO/DI unit (only 2 months old or so). It was below 6.2!! BTW, that's the lowest my test goes down to but the coloring was pretty obvious!!

So apparently the first thing I've got to do is fix my pH levels for my water changes. I've been adding buffer the last couple of weeks but I'm not so sure that's enough....

Tankerini

Hmmm probably a good idea to check water pre RO/DI treatment after RO/DI treatment and then after you have turned it into sea water.
Just to pin point exactly whats happening, and whats effecting the levels. (I will definitely be doing this prior to setting up my tank).

I know you said ph was real low on the water after you run it thorough RO/DI unit, but once you add the salt does it bring the PH back up?

Let the oil tank water testing commence