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Water Changes forum. Used to discuss one of the most important aspects in all of fish keeping - water changes.

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Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Bum
 
Safely Raising GH & KH??? HELP!

Sorry, this is going to be long winded but the more info the better right?

I had a 55 gallon tropical community tank, established for over 1 year. Never really had problems or issues with the tank or the fish. I recently bought a brand new 120 gallon tank. I transferred all of the gravel from the 55 gallon and another 47 gallon tank that I had (I sold the 47 G to buy the 120 G) making sure that it was never rinsed in tap water and never dried out to preserve the bacteria. I also moved the Aqua Clear 70 G filters (x2) from both the 55 gallon and the 47 gallon and put them on the 120 gallon. I used as much of the water from the old 55 gallon tank as I could since it was a healthy tank but I did end up having to top it off about 50% with new, conditioned water (I use Seachem Prime) to fill it up. I don't use any other chemicals.

I had 6 platy fish, 4 mollies, 20 neon tetras, 4 red eye teras, 4 small cory catfish, 6 zebra danios, and 1 betta. I transferred them over to the new tank. I added two clown loaches after the transfer. The clown loaches, cories and danios have been fine. The platies and mollies have been fin clamped and hover by the heater, the red eyes are not schooling anymore and hide most of the time. They weren't really active before but more so than they are now. The neons seem really distraught and don't school like they used to. I have fished out 5 dead neon tetras since the transfer on Sunday. They aren't the hardiest of fish so I thought it was sheer stress of the move.

Yesterday morning I turned on the tank lights and began feeding as usual. I noticed that my favorite fish and one of my hardiest, my bright purple betta, did not come out of his cave as he always has everyday since I bought him over a year ago. I lifted up his cave and he rolled out listless. He was pale white, had lost almost all of his coloring, he had a couple of patches of yellowish raised coloring randomly on his body, but not at all hairy like fungus though, and he looked extremely swollen all over. He was not like that at all when I turned off the lights the night before. I immediately transferred him to a 10 gallon quarantine that I keep running and ready under the main 120 gallon tank, mostly for quarantine of new fish. I added 1 tsp. per 5 gallons of aquarium salt (don't keep salt in the main tank because of the tetras but the mollies have always been fine without it), the recommended Melafix and some Minocycline. He was dead this morning.

I tested my tank water. I use liquid drop kit for everything except KH & GH because all the store had was strips for those last time I was there. I always keep an eye on this but apparently I underestimated what 50% new water would do to my new tank despite thinking I was doing everything as I should. My temp is always 77 consistently. My pH is always 7.4. It comes out of the tap that way and I have never seen a change in it. My ammonia and nitrites are always 0. My nitrates had been about 30 PPM before the change but they went down to 7.5 ppm with the change. My KH and GH dropped to almost nothing. GH is now 30 and KH is now 40 as opposed to GH being 120 before and KH being 60 before. I don't know much about GH and KH or how to change it without dumping a bunch of junk in my tank and I don't want to kill anymore fish but I suspect this is certainly the problem since it's the only levels that's so drastically different. How can I safely and effectively help my fish?
AquaMom is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Oh no...I'm sorry about your betta! I don't know if you've seen the threads on Melafix in this forum, but the active ingredient is actually extremely harmful to labyrinth fish. I'll look for the link for you. Also, salt baths are very controversial, but from my understanding most people don't recommend them for bettas specifically.

In terms of your GH and KH, I have very little experience in that area so I'll let someone else handle that.
agabr123 is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Master
 
MELAFIX ALERT FOR LABYRINTH FISH....ALL PLEASE READ

here's one of the links...
agabr123 is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Bum
 
Weird about the Melafix. I successfully treated a betta with a funky lesion before with it but I won't use it anymore on my labyrinths. It was a 10 gallon quarantine tank and did have a less than usual Melafix dose and I never took out of the carbon from the filter so I don't think this is what did Lilac in as he was pretty bad off when I fished him out of the 120 G.
AquaMom is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Yeah, I was surprised when I found out too, luckily I hadn't ever used it but still.
agabr123 is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Master
 
aww im sorry for your betta...poor fella...I think the 120 is too big for them to get to the top for air...they need smaller tanks as they are labyrinth fish ...and they dont tolerate salt ...I dont think he had anything wrong with him other than too big of a tank and couldnt get the air supply he needed..the bloated and color change would be from taking in too much water and lack of oxygen and stress ... so I wouldnt medicate .....gh and kh arent as important as the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates which you have all under control ....did he make it or pass? I hope he made it and recovered in the small tank !
Shawnie is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Bum
 
Thanks for the info: ) Not sure I'm convinced it was the tank size either. His old 55 g he was in was 18 inches tall, the 120 is only 22 inches tall. There is a 30 inch bubble wand and a large piece of ornament with an airstone as well. I know they need surface access and I saw him come up several times as he did in the 55 g. I keep the vents open because I have no jumpers. He was swimming about and acting normally and there was nothing in the tank that could've attacked him. It was like all of a sudden he just got very sick and died within 12 hours. I've had the 5 dead neons and the clamped platies & mollies so I'm thinking it's something to do with that GH & KH. No one acted weird or died until that changed so that's what's making me think it has to do with that.
AquaMom is offline  
Old January 22nd, 2009  
Fish Master
 
bettas dont get air from bubbles he needs surface air..they love to play in bubbles tho.....was the tank used or maybe it had something of a residue left in it somehow? even tho you used new water, it was water your fish were use to right? that was too fast for the gh, kh to kill immediately like that....what test kit do you use? all the questions are just asked to try to help figure out maybe whats going on
Shawnie is offline  
Old January 23rd, 2009  
Fish Bum
 
Tank was brand new and free of any dirt or debris, I am very good about that. Only rinsed in conditioned water that came from old tank. Again, he had access to all of the surface and vents are left open for good air circulation. He acted normally right up until I noticed he didn't come out to eat and he looked like a totally different and very sick fish and died rather quickly.

All tests are API liquid master fresh kit except GH & KH which are API strips because the local shop was out of the liquid tests. I have ordered a liquid test online but it won't be here until next week. GH & KH was the only items that changed (and drastically) other than the nitrates going down, which should have been a good thing. I have had 5 dead neons since Sunday, 1 dead betta and today 1 dead molly who had been perfectly fine yesterday at 11 p.m. when the tank lights went off. After someone else's advice I did buy some Cichlid buffer to raise the GH & KH without messing with the pH but they won't be here until next week because no local shop carries them and I had to order them online. I just hope that no more fish die. That betta was my favorite and I raised that molly from birth and she was only a year and a half old : (

The platies are still eating but then settling to hover by the heater with their fins clamped. Some of the red eye tetras aren't eating. The danios, cories and clown loaches are fine. Who knows....
AquaMom is offline  
Old January 23rd, 2009  
Fish Bum
 
I got really curious on the whole Melafix / Pimafix thing since I have used both succesfully many times and I found this article which seems very convincing:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts....dication4.html
AquaMom is offline  
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