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Old October 12th, 2008  
Fish Bum
 
Water changes with dying fish?

I have a very sick guppy. He has a bad case of fin rot (tail half-gone, fins shredded), and his scales are sticking up noticeably. I've been keeping him in a net breeder that hangs on the side of the tank, to protect him from my other guppy, who nips at him.

My problem is that I added fish before I knew about the nitrogen cycle, and my tank hasn't cycled yet. I've been doing 50% water changes every day, which means that the net breeder doesn't have water in it while I'm taking out water. Until yesterday, I would just let the guppy out of the net during the change, then stick him back in when I was done. However, this meant that he got picked on constantly until I could put him back.

Yesterday, I tried a different approach. I filled a bucket with water from my tank and moved the net breeder, with the guppy in it, to the bucket, then moved it back after the change. I did the same today, but I haven't put him back in yet. I just realized that maybe the stress of being moved to and from the bucket each day might be more harmful than the damage my healthy guppy can do?

It seems I have three options.

1. I let him out of the net for the water change, and he gets picked on by the other guppy.

2. I move him to the bucket each change, then put him back when it's done.

3. I leave him in the bucket until a) my tank is cycled and I don't have to do daily water changes, or b) he dies. Option b is more likely, unfortunately.

Your thoughts?

Last edited by Minnow; October 12th, 2008 at 11:27 PM.
Minnow is offline  
Old October 12th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
I'm sorry to tell you this, but if his scales are sticking out, like a pinecone, then that's dropsy. By the time you see any signs of it it's too late and the best choice is euthanasia. I've dealt with it twice myself. I hope that he'll make it, but the chances are extremely slim.
pinkfloydpuffer is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Master
 
It is also a sign of ammonia which you are taking care of with water changes...I would put him in a bowl withe some tank water each time you do a change..I wouldnt let him in the tank until he heals up...some fish protector, stress coat, and some garlic juice will help him alot also..especially the stress coat which has aloe in it for his scales..goodluck!
Shawnie is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Bum
 
Thank you for the help. Is dropsy contagious? The rest of my fish are healthy, I don't want them to get sick.

Also, should I euthanize immediately, or is there a chance he can recover? If so, how can I help him?
Minnow is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Moderator
 
As far as I know, drospy isn't contagious. Is it possible you can post a pic of the little guy?

I'm sorry he's not doing well.
Lucy is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnow View Post
Thank you for the help. Is dropsy contagious? The rest of my fish are healthy, I don't want them to get sick.

Also, should I euthanize immediately, or is there a chance he can recover? If so, how can I help him?
Dropsy itself is not contagious. There are several possible causes, one of which is a bacterial infection that invades the kidneys and shuts them down. Fish usually are only suseptible to this when they are in poor water conditions, as they would be when going through cycling. I would isolate him just to be sure. Dropsy is usually a sign of failure of the kidneys, so their fluid regulation is off and so they fill up with fluids. Once they start pineconing there is almost no chance of them making it, because the damage to the kidneys is irreversible. Of course you can always try, but when I was in your situation I decided to euthanize instead of making the fish suffer longer. But it is your choice, you know your fish, and if he looks very unhappy, then euthanasia may be the best option.
pinkfloydpuffer is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Addict
 
Has anyone heard of using epson's salt for dropsy?
Jess is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess View Post
Has anyone heard of using epson's salt for dropsy?
Yes, I have. I don't know how effective it is, but since dropsy is caused by a buildup of fluid, a salt bath could draw out the fluid. It wouldn't hurt to try I guess.
pinkfloydpuffer is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Addict
 
That's what I've heard. I must say I haven't tried it. So I don't know the proper amount to dose with.
Jess is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
Well, here's a few sites I found on using epsom for dropsy. As you can see, many recommend this, but some don't. I just pulled the first three that came up.

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com...th-dropsy.html
*Perform a medicated bath with Methylene Blue and Kanacyn. To prepare this bath I use 1 teaspoon 2.303% solution per 5 gallons (double dose) in a bath of aquarium water from the tank the fish you wish to treat came from, I usually use about a ½ gallon of water, however you may use less. Measurement of the Methylene Blue does not need to be precise as this bath should be used for about 30 minutes (although do NOT overdose). Make sure you keep the water in a warm area, as in a cold room the water temperature can drop rapidly which would stress the fish. As to the Kanacyn, I generally have used twice to four times the recommended in tank strength in these baths of Kanamycin.

I STRONGLY recommend the use of salts in this bath as well at about double tank strength; 1-2 teaspoons sodium chloride (regular salt) per gallon and 1/8 to ¼ teaspoon Epsom salt per gallon of bath water.

Do NOT pour this water back into your display aquarium when finished. This can be performed twice per day.


*Add one tablespoon of regular salt (sodium chloride) per 5 gallons of tank water and ¼ to ½ teaspoon of Epsom salts per 5 gallons of tank water (I prefer the use of Epsom Salts in a bath over the main tank/bowl as Epsom salts can interfere with the correct mineral balance in aquarium water).

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8150759AAGEMw9
I would remove it to a hospital tank where you could easily dose epsom salt. This will draw any excess fluid in the body (which is dropsy) without the kidneys (which are likely already damaged if the fish has excess fluid). You could also treat with Kanacyn, Kanaplex, Furan 2, Terramycin, or similar medications. Use 1/4 teaspoon of epsom salt per 10 gallons of water and turn the heat up to around 75-80* and increase aeration.

http://www.nippyfish.net/dropsy.html
Dropsy is not considered contagious but the infection that caused it could be so it is advised that sick fish be quarantined in a hospital tank. It is also wise to sanitize any shared equipment like nets, siphons or measuring spoons with a solution suitable for cleaning aquarium equipment.

Because the success rate is so low it is entirely up to you to treat this illness. In many cases the treatment is so potent that medicine can cause even more damage to the kidneys. If you are sure of the cause then treat accordingly using the proper fish medication. In most circumstances the cause is not obvious. In these cases it is recommended to use a broad-spectrum antibiotic or a combination of a gram-positive and gram-negative antibiotics. This will cover a variety of common bacterial infections. I recommend a combination of Mardel’s Maracyn and Maracyn-Two. Kanacyn is also a very good antibiotic but is quite strong and may or may not cause additional damage. If you fish is still eating it will be more effective to soak some pellet food in a mixture of tank water and antibiotic and feed it to him. This will allow the medicine to take effect more quickly. This can be done in addition to the package directions.

Whether or not you choose to treat Dropsy it is very important to make your fish as comfortable as possible. Lowing the tank water level and placing plants in the tank will allow him easier access to the surface for air. Some aquarists will fashion a sling out of netting and place it just below the water’s surface allowing the betta to always stay near his air supply. Many medications cause dissolved oxygen levels to drop so adding an air stone may help replace lost oxygen. Rapid gill movement and gasping are signs of depleted oxygen levels. To relieve the discomfort of bloating add 1/2 tsp aquarium salt per gallon of water. This will help to draw some of the fluids out and relieve pressure. Epsom salt baths are not recommended because of inconsistencies in their success rate. As always never use table salt in a fish tank. Aquarium salt can be purchased at your local fish store. Most importantly, keep your tank water clean and stable and your temperature at a comfortable 78˚F [25.5˚C].
pinkfloydpuffer is offline  
Old October 13th, 2008  
Fish Bum
 
Thank you all so much for the advice and information; I really appreciate your help. I had planned on euthanizing him, but I'm sad to say that he died while I was at school today. He will be missed
Minnow is offline  
Old October 14th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
Oh, I'm sorry you lost him. RIP little guppy.
pinkfloydpuffer is offline  
Old October 14th, 2008  
Moderator
 
I'm sorry you lost the little guy.
Lucy is offline  
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