majnj

Hi Everyone -- I've been lurking for a bit and can see that you all have much help and advice to offer and I'm really in need.
About a month ago (16 September) my established 20g tank crashed. Everything went wrong at once (heater was working in overdrive which unfortunately coincided with a thermometer failure resulting in very warm and incredibly smelly water, there was weird white stuff in the tank, then the filter froze up, and I started losing fish). I moved the fish to a small tank and totally re-did the 20g -- new everything, except the biowheel (I transferred the orginal one to the new filter). I know now that it was probably not a good idea to do such a wholesale change, but at the time, the fish were suffering and I just wanted to fix things.
My problem now is that I don't know if I'm making any progress with cycling the new set-up. I added Stress-Zyme according to package directions with each of the water changes for the first 14 days, along with Stress Coat.
The pH readings stay between 6-6.6 and the ammonia keeps climbing (9/23: 2ppm, 9/29: 4ppm, 10/6, 10/11, 10/14: 8+PPM), but I'm still getting 0 readings for nitrite and nitrate. The high ammonia is really starting to bother the fish and I would like your advice.
Do water changes hurt cycling (should I expect this process to take longer since I have fish in the tank)? Does the frequency matter? Should I vacuum the gravel when I do these changes (I use a Python for my water changes)?
I have added AmmoLock because the ammonia is still measureable even after a water change -- does the AmmoLock slow down the cycling process? Does this mean I'm not changing enough water?
Thanks so much for any advice you can give -- I'm trying my hardest and doing what I can to save my fish. -- Mary Ann

Wolfgang8810

well first it is normal for ammonia to go that high before you get a nitrite reading, nitrite dosent showup untill the ammonia starts droping. water changes dont hurt as much as vacuuming the gravel. i would say keep up with water changes but dont vacuum the gravel as the bacteria colonies are reassembaling in the substrate. The cycling process DOES take longer with fish and leads to overall weaker fish in the long run. i dont think that you should add any chemicals durring the cycle so water changes (not gravel vacuuming) would be the least invasive way imho. However i am still pretty new here so you may want to wait for some more experienced fishloreans. Good luck, I hope everything works out alright.

<Mark>

sirdarksol

Ammolock (or similar products) shouldn't stop the cycling. They render the ammonia into a form that isn't as harmful for the fish, but don't actually get rid of it. I finished the cycle of my tank using Amquel, because the fish were suffering from ammonia poisoning. However, a good water conditioner is a must.

I agree, however, that water changes are your best friend. Another point of disagreement however, it is my opinion (and it is just opinion) that it is better to do the gravel vac and take the slowdown (which has never been very much for me, but some people have reported bigger effects) on the cycle. This helps negate any spikes in ammonia that can harm the fish, as well as any sudden drops in pH as the waste products decay.

Wolfgang8810

with my 10 gallon i vacuumed the gravel and it took close to 2 monthes before things were stable but i was new to fish back then i would listen to sirdarksol

sirdarksol

It could be that there was something else going on in your tank, wolfgang, that took it so long to cycle....
or....
There could be something else that has helped my tanks make it through their cycles so quickly.
With most cycling, it's really just a matter of opinion and really more of a philosophical argument than anything else
However, when cycling with fish (which I don't suggest, but there's no choice in this case ), I think keeping the toxins down is more important than speeding the cycle along.

Wolfgang8810

this is very true mt 10 gallon has been up and running for quite a while now and since i have added a 3 gallon and a 50 gallon to my room lol its so much fubn

majnj

Thanks for the advice everyone, I will keep adding the ammolock so that my poor fish can be as comfortable as possible. I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't possible to do too many water changes. Also, I think I'll split the difference and only vacuum some of the gravel each time to hedge my bets on the bacteria growth.
It's helpful to hear that it isn't unusual for the cycle process to take this much time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things progress smoothly.
Mary Ann