CWO4GUNNER

This morning I noticed that my school of very healthy and disease free large Tiger Barbs are following around the 2nd largest TB and have sucked away most of its pelvic fins. No sign of fast aggression juts slow following and sucking or chewing after while the victim has moved away from the group and sort of sites alone. Now that the light are on they have stopped this behavior. The fins look eaten away with no sign of disease anywhere in the tank and fins are otherwise full and healthy with no tattered ends.

The only thing I can think of is the recent change in tank location, the move, and the complete rearrangement and addition of ornaments may have caused some chnages within the school. The smaller green and very large TB's seem commingled whereas before they were two separate schools of 5 large TB's and 5 small green TB's, now seem to be one school of 4 large and 3 small green while the others seem to be left out and alone. should I remove the large wound barb who seems otherwise unfazed, looking for food exc.
Should I separate them? or is this normal behavior?

agabr123

i'd agree, it sounds like the barbs are re-establishing their hierarchy, how long has this been going on? and how long ago did you re-arrange everything?

CWO4GUNNER

Day before yesterday, Sunday night I moved the established 60 tank which meant removing all the fish and ornaments then then relocating. Then Monday establishing the new 120 tank in the old 60 tank spot then removing half of the bacteria coated ornaments from the 60 tank to the 120 tank for breeding bacteria, replacing them with brand new different ornaments into the established 60 tank in a completely different arrangement. Everything was fine yesterday feeding and eating until this morning I noticed the Pelvic fins are almost gone on my 2nd to largest Tiger Barb 2.5" now just hanging out near the hiding areas swimming nose slightly down but holding his own and picking at ornaments here and there. Should I move him for rest and healing? Or should is thi snormal and let him heal up on his own in the school?

Lucy

It would proabably be a good idea to move him to QT.
If he's weak the other fish might pick at him more.

AlyeskaGirl

I too would move him to q-tine tank just to be safe with infection. He's been picked on, may be stressed and that is an open door for bacteria/fungal infections. Maybe fin-rot, not saying he will. Just take precautions is all i say.

agabr123

i'd definitely remove him but then once he heals up you face the issue of how to return him to the original tank, chances are he'll get injured even worse if they've already established a new hierarchy when you re-introduce him.

CWO4GUNNER

Maybe the best of all situations is to quarantine him in tank with a big net separator thingy so he can heal get food separately and sill be seen as a member so to speak. I turned on the sterilizer so any floating infractions should be neutralized as far as any post spread.

agabr123

that sounds like a good plan to me

CWO4GUNNER

I forgot I bought this huge fish net at Pet Smart on sale for $2, as if I would ever need it. But just as I was about to go out and buy a QT net separator I remembered this big net in storage and just bent the handle to come out of the hood access port with the net inside and rim above water. He must have sensed I was trying to help him because after a couple runs he settled down and almost let me net him. The good news is he accepted FD worms right away while the other barbs looked on in contempt lol. Ill make sure he gets frozen B worms & brime only until he heals up.


PS, you will note the background scenery, always place your blue sky on top if you have to cut a second piece on a tall aquarium LOL.

CWO4GUNNER

Well after 4 days of being in the big net and actually taking it pretty well. eating when fed and not minding to stay put I noticed today that the tip of his torn up pelvic fins have billowy white tufts on the ends and even though he ate he was more listless then usual. So I moved him today to the 2.5 gal Sterilite container with macracyn powder, stress coat, 83 degree heater raised water, thermometer and airstone. I think he was rubbing his nose on the net as well causing a red spot and probubly the bottom irritating his pelvic fins. As a precaution I turned the sterilizer on in the 60 tank encase the recent introduction of 4 PetSmart Otto's. Water test numbers were good only nitrate registering at 10 PPM, this until my Nitrate plant filter gets over its shock from the move.

CWO4GUNNER

Wow what a difference 12 hours made in the QT with a double dose of Maracyn. Those white tufts on the end of his bitten pelvic fins are gone and he is swimming much better in his large space.

navyscuba

Those are some good news Gunner. Hope he makes it back to the big tank soon.

agabr123

that's good news! i'm glad he's feeling better, i'd continue the entire round of treatment, keep the UV on your 60 gallon while he's in there, and monitor him for a while

CWO4GUNNER

Thanks and morning shipmate.
Not looking forward to tax season paper work, this morning my procrastination ends and I start looking at numbers instead of fish.

navyscuba

Hahaha. I did mine as soon as I got my W2's. Like end of Jan or so. I was going nuts looking for sales reciepts for house renovation stuff.

CWO4GUNNER

After almost 5 days of meds and water chnages (RO/Tap) in the 2.5 gal QT tank the Tiger Barb that had the fungus on the end of his his red pelvic fins that were chewed off by a smaller male has healed up is very lively, big appetite and even lets me pet him at the surface as he always gets excited when I enter the room as if he knows I took care of him, a fish!

Anyway now that hard part.
(1)Do I introduce him early with his healed but stubby fins? I know I cant keep him there too long.
(2)Do I reintroduce by swamping him out with the dominant male and putting the other in the cleaned QT for 48 hours only to put him back later while the bigger male reasserts his position like before?
(3)Do I move things in the aquarium around so they are all bamboozled and stat over?
(4)Do I do all of 2-4?

SWilkins

You could take everybody out to separate bowls for a short period of time and move things around and then introduce everybody back. Maybe they will think they have a new home and not remember each other.

CWO4GUNNER

Actually that's a great idea, I just don't have that many tupperware holders, aerators and heaters (10 Barbs). But I do think that would do it. What would work is another community tank and I would get one if I could afford an Alfred like Bruce Wayne lol. Two big tanks are more then enough unless it was large enough for me to have some swimming fun as well and jump in to feed and clean the acrylic LOL. Not many doable options so I guess Ill have to ID the new dominant and exchange him plus change a bunch of ornaments. OK thanks

CWO4GUNNER

I swapped out the QT Tigar Barb (biggest male) for the dominant male in the tank (smaller male) but taking a closer looke I think that the one I released back is not a male but a female because after eating well in the OT and not getting exercise the fish is so round shape almost distended and the biggest Tiger barb in the tank a female is sizing up the returnee and the rest seem to be following her lead. Could it be that it was a dominant female squabble to begin with? I know nothing of the Tiger Barb hierarchy and who rules the school male or female, I assumed male.

Anyone know if females are the Alpha and if they are prone to fighting off rival females? I may have to get that 3.5" female out of there. But they are all kind of squabbling right now anyway, maybe I should wait for first blood lol. It turns out the other barb that I swapped is the only other Barb that has always tiny bit of missing tail fin that has never grown back or gotten worse in the 2 month I have owned him but I still think its a bit of rot (no-photo) so Ill med him for a few days anyway before releasing him back. Here are some pics note caption in red.

CWO4GUNNER

After some observation I do think the QT striped I returned is female and that the big (biggest) Alfa female is making the demands as the QT barb now has to swim vertical head down in order to keep from being attacked and even that invites a few light nips every minute so the QT is relegated to swimming vertical like she is sleeping with hardly any color. I think Im going to have to get a proper separator and remove that large alpha female. Maybe I can put a large floating separator in my 120 until she gets humbled. In the meantime Im getting ready to remove the alpha to the QT tank and bring back that other male.

Here is a quote from aquaticcommunity.com. and is free for non published distribution. "Sexing Tiger barbs is not very hard, since the female Tiger barb is larger than the male and sports a rounder belly. The male have a distinctive red nose, and above the black part of his dorsal fin you can see a characteristic red line. The dorsal fin of the female is mainly black."

So since there is only two females the answer is simple, remove the big one for a while and hope things get better for the other.

In the end however and from what I have read this is a course of behavior that by creation is not right or wrong but a part of these species normal behavior and trying to modify it for our set of subjective values is not going to work and in fact make things even worse. So I have decided to just let it it play out no matter what the outcome.

agabr123

good luck, gunner! sounds like the barbs are keeping your hands full!

CWO4GUNNER

Thanks. I couldn't bring myself in all good conscious to continue to allow her to get bit where she had just healed and she allowing it to happen by presenting herself in a head down vulnerable position. I did find out however that the alpha or leader male and female were the key to this barbs bad treatment. Without them present she would actually swim horizontal again and no one would mistreat her. I might put her up for sale as she is a premium size Barb. Since she is healed only rejected at the moment I have her separated inside the tank. From the photo below you can see that I have placed her in a Lee's net breeder separator ($4). Its square size allows the fish to swim and turn without getting rub injury from using a cone shaped net which doesn't work well and chafes the fish.

snowball

well... you could always but 9 more of those big nets and place them in their that way, and put some plants to block the sight from each other.
This however with higher temperatures will probobly activate breeding time.