armadillo

Hi guys (well, Ross, really, as I know you've answered a lot about this one lately, so I reckon I need to pick your brains on this one).

I have this nerite zebra snail in my 29G. It's doing WONDERS at getting rid of the green spot algae. Miracle worker. Better than his dwarf loach tankmates are at eating small snails...

Buuuut, his shell is fraying in places (you see white, calcareous bits) and I am not surprised. He has no source of calcium in there. So I am toying with the idea of limestone, but don't even know where to start. Some questions:
1/ Can you buy just one limestone rock, rather than adding a whole layer of substrate
2/ Will it drastically increase my pH? It's already 8.0!
3/ Does it need replacing once in a while to stay potent?
4/ How to make sure the snail understands it's good for it and grazes an area with limestone in particular?
5/ I don't suppose you've heard of calcium pills (kind of the equivalent of algae pills). If they existed, that would do me a huge favor. (if my mollies don't get there first)

mlinden84

I have a tankful of limestone rock (big landscaping chunks) in my tank, and my ph has stayed at 8.2.
For me it's like a magnet for algae, it grows on the rock faster than the pleco can clean it off. You might try getting one rock and see how it goes.
Sorry I can't be of more help, but I thought I'd share what I did know.

armadillo

Oh no, on the contrary, Michelle. That's great. How big is your tank? Mine's quite small to Fishlore's standards (29G). If yours is the same or smaller than mine, then there's a good chance my pH wont' increase either.

Great that it's one rock, rather than a whole layer of gravel.

Does your snail like to browse on it, and did you notice any improvements with their shell?

Chief_waterchanger

I believe Butterfly used limestone in one of her tanks and only noticed a .4 increase over a period of time. The way the pH increases is through the leeching of the rock into the water, which is a very very slow process. It could take it more than a week to show any signs of raising, and even then it is very little to no marked rise in pH.

mlinden is correct, the rocks are awesome for algae growth. Also awesome to use twist ties to affix a plant such as anubias or java fern to the rock and after a couple of months take the twist ties off to have a nice rock plant, it could be a pretty decoration as well as helpful.

As far as getting the snail to realize he needs it, just put him on it when you put it in there. That will show him its there, beyond that it is up to the snail.

Sure you can buy just one piece. Do you have shops on that side of the pond that sell rock? We have places here that keep rock in wire cages to sell, mostly to businesses by the cageful, but you can buy just one. They sell it by the pound usually. (It is cheaper to buy from a rock place than to buy from aquarium shops if they carry it.) Or if you can tell what type of rock you see out in the wild, if ya'll have limestone deposites over there I bet you could get one and bake it for half an hour and it cost you nothing.

I have not heart of calcium pills that would be tank safe. I will leave that to Butterfly or Dino to answer.

I would say no to replacing the rock to stay potent. The very make-up of the rock is what you need, so I don't think it would need replacing.

I will direct Dino here this evening, because I am unaware as to how much calcium the snail needs versus how much each piece would contribute, etc. He is the scientist.

armadillo

Wow, thanks a lot, Ross. It's all very clear now, and exactly what I wanted to hear: I was really dreading reports of a massive increase of pH, having to regularly replace the rock, or having to use gravel. So this is awesome.

'It's up to the snail' ROFL. Well the snail eventually found the green spot algae (took him two days, but he's really hard at work now). So hopefully, he'll enjoy grazing on the rock.

I love the suggestion of tying a plant to it. I've not been having much success on my java moss/driftwood experiment. And it sounds like a great addition to my algae farm!!!

I don't know of any rock carreers closeby. We're on re-claimed land, so I assume any mineral in the region is mainly sand-based. Am guessing if I do buy it at a petstore, it won't cost me that much, right? Couple of dollars? Also, I wouldn't trust myself to pick an aquarium-safe one if I bought it anywhere but in a fish store. I just don't think my Dutch is quite good enough to not lead to a drastic misunderstanding on that one, LOL.

griffin

not related to the limestone, but if you look at the ingredients on calcium pills, they should tell you if it;s safe. i know some people use caltrate in their tanks for snails, but i don't know what the ingredients in that are. however, i've used calcium sulfate with no problems.

armadillo

Thanks, Griffin.

I should look at calcium pills for human consumption?

In what form do you use calcium sulfate? As a powder, pill? Aquarium-designed?

Dino

Armadillo, what is your pH.
Larger snails need a 7-8 pH to do best.

Calcium can be added to the tank thru limestone, which was already mentioned, and by adding egg shells, sea shells or crushed coral.

Make sure the pH change is gradual if you need to up it.

A great snail site is

www.applesnail.net

griffin

i'm not too sure about the Ca pills. i know i used some that were made for humans and didn't have lots of extra ingredients, but as far as cost is concerned, calcium sulfate is the way to go. i got mine from a home improvement store.

hope that helps!

Butterfly

You can also get food for crabs that has calcium in them. I feed crab bites to my fish just for the heck of it once in a while. It is really small so not sure the snail would find it but maybe other crab food.
I was using texas Holey rock in my tank and noticed a very small change as CWC stated. When you do water changes and gravel vacuums you tend to dilute the limestone that disolves in the tank.
hope that helps.
Carol

armadillo

Thanks, Dino.

My pH is 8.0, so I really dont' want it to get any higher.

Am thinking my best bet is to get the snail to graze on the piece of limestone, and to get only a small piece. That way, hardly any noticeable pH changes I expect. I'll try to think of ways to attract it there. Also, I do 2x weekly water changes, so that ought to take care of avoiding too high concentrations.

armadillo

Oooh food for crabs. My larger LFS will carry that for sure. Thanks for the tip!

Dino

We use hermit crab food here with our shrimp, for color ( iodine and calcium).

Gozer_1

Hmm I was just reading and posting about using Marble in my new planted tank. Marble is a metamorphism of limestone. It's calcite, Calcium Carbonate, so maybe you could go with a pretty piece of Marble.

Dino

Marble will work just fine as well.

armadillo

I was just looking for that tonight, but no luck. I'll check the larger LFS.

armadillo

Marble as in a round thing? Wow, no idea how I'll translate the limestone type that in Dutch. I'll google it.

Oh, and I've found out how you say limestone: kalksteen. There you go, learn something new every day.

Gozer_1

No marble as in what they make statues and columns and countertops with.

armadillo

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Doh! Can't believe I was thinking round marbles, LOL. Now THAT should be easy to Google-translate.

Butterfly

There are places here that cut marble counter tops and other marble items and give the scraps away. Do you think you might be able to find something like that?
Carol