cthoughts1

Hey all.. I've had my tank for about 3 months now. About a month into it I thought the tank cycled completely. I slowly added fish until i got to 4 clowns, 2 cobies, 1 skunk shrimp, 1 small hippo tang, a dart fish and a bi-color blenny.. About a week ago I got a little carried away and picked up a small 2" yellow tang and a powder brown tang (3-4") and a Naso tang.

Since I added those last 3 tangs my readings went up the roof with the Nitrites and Nitrates. My ammonia is still at zero, but my nitrites are between 1 and 2 and my nitrates are around 30. I know that is way too high. It's been like this for a few days now and I'm panicking quite a bit now. I've put in Bio-Spira as well as One and Only by Dr. Tim's and it doesn't seem to be helping the situation. I initially did water changes daily when I discovered this about 5 days ago but when I went into the pet shop they told me to stop doing the water changes.

I have an Eheim 2217 cannister filter (rated 125 gallons), an under gravel filter with two powerheads, a tetratec hang on (rated 125 gallons), a Berilin X2 turbo skimmer, and a UV Sterilizer.

Please give me some advice or ideas as what to do? So far I moved my blenny and the yellow tang to a 24 gallon nano-cube I have, but I don't wanna put any more fish inthere for fear of the same thing happening. Any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, or similar experiences? I'd hate to lose any of my fish...

TFA101

how big is this aquarium?

cthoughts1

it's 75 gallons..

angelfish220

Is your skimmer still working properly?

cthoughts1

I turned the skimmer off because i added Bio-spira this morning, should I turn it back on?

TFA101

I would make water changes daily and use either the water conditioner Prime (a good favorite) or Ultimate (reccomended by my LFS) until your readings are back to normal.

I think the cause of this might be the large load you so suddenly put on your tank by adding the three tangs.

cthoughts1

TFA101, I agree it must be the large load I added. The LFS said not to do any more water changes for like a week because I did 3 20% water changes for 3 days in a row.. They said I may be "keeping it too clean".... Should I continue with the water changes? I'm getting Prime first thing in the morning.. Should I turn the skimmer back on or leave it off?

cthoughts1

Any suggestions or advice on keeping the skimmer on or off? What about the UV sterilizer? I have that off as well.....

angelfish220

I would turn the skimmer back on...

'Course I don't actually have a SW tank, I don't have enough money, but have read quite a bit on them.

TFA101

I would continue with the water changes and do your best to remove those harmful nitrites. the nitrates are still toxic, but not when you get them down to low levels (which will be achieved with the daily water changes)

cthoughts1

TFA do you agree that I should turn the skimmer back on? What about the UV steralizer - on or off?

TFA101

the UV sterilizer is the one that kills algae spores right?

if so, i wouldn't turn that back on, as it will benefit your tangs with the nitrates your have. some algae will grow and it will be consumed by your tangs. however, you you notice the algae growth is too dramatic or too much, you can turn it back on.

I'm not sure about the protien skimmer, i'm a freshwater enthusiast and a salwater keeper wannabe but i haven't learned about the protien skimmer yet

cthoughts1

ok, thanks for your help guys..

nemo addict

You have 3 tangs in a 75 ,,, The only one that should be in there is the yellow tang,,,

The tank is to small for the powder blue and naso and as they grow they will become aggressive due to lack of space and will proberbly kill eachother if they dont get to stressed and die of white spot first ,, for a naso fully grown (12-20 inchs) you would require a tank double the size of yours,, powder blues are known for getting white spot as they are easily stressed ,, please read nasotang profile

cthoughts1

Hey Nemo Addict.. I try to do all my research before buying any type of fish:

http://www.marinecenter.com/fish/tangs/nasotang/

I don't just buy them to buy them. And it's not a powder blue tang that I have it's a powder brown tang (which I hear are rather peaceful). The reason I got three is because the LFS told me that 2 alone would likely not get along but if I got at least three it would neutralize their aggressiveness..

Anyway, that being said, do you have any input as to how to lower my Nitrites?

agsansoo

Hello cthoughts, first thing you should do is turn on the protein skimmer and shut off the UV sterilizer. First question. How much live rock do you have in your tank ? Second thing I would do is take back the powder blue tang and a Naso tang to the LFS. They will get too big for your tank. You can keep the yellow tank, he's a great addition to any tank. Also you really shouldn't add so many fish at any one time. One fish every five weeks is about right in a saltwater tank.

agsansoo

I would not use that ^ website as a guide in the future ! Try reading this site, for further research. It's really been helpful to me.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nasoselfaqs.htm

cerianthus

Adding 3 fish in 75 G should not have caused spike of nitrite if tank was well established.

As Far what fish should go and should'nt go in the tank , i will leave it up to the keeper. What I end up doing was as fish got bigger, provided bigger home.

As far as adding 3 tangs at the same time, i believe lfs was right since adding 3 or more tangs at the same time resulted in less aggression toward one particular tang (break up the fight), at least w/ my experiences.

Leave the skimmer on at this time. When you are adding any additves, just watch the collection cup since it can skim lot more due to organic matters in additives (Bio-Spira for Ex.).

Partial Water Changes? if nitrite is somewhat reduced, I would stop. If nitrite is not lowered or getting higher, would continue to do PWC. You probably noticed that PWC does not really lower the level that much. That does not mean you should do massive water changes which can disturb whatever propagation of bacteria is going on.

UV, would leave it off since will kill inactive beneficial bacteria in the water which will become active once attached to media.

As one of member pointed out, do you have any live rocks?

Although, Eheim , UGF and HOB filters can be used in S/W (Actually, these were only available filters before W/D came into market sometimes in late 70 or early 80's)), these do require constant maintenance since organic matters will breakdown in the filter becoming nitrate factory.
Make sure to vacuum substrate partially w/ PWC to suck out the organic matters trapped in the substrate. Like I said, your system can handle it but does require maintenance more often.

Hope this help a bit and hope that your tank stablize soon and would love to hear that all the fish are doing fine!!!

nemo addict

the above is true but for a 75g 3 is really to much ,, naso s dont really mix well with other tangs and as mentioned above that web site is really poor info, when reasearching look at several sites and take the majority advice ,,
X-Large/Around 5"-7" naso, this is more like medium, large 9-12 xtra large up to 20,,,,

About your nitrites/nitrates ,, how much movement do you have (power heads) :
move one if you have a couple very near the surface ,
remove under gravel filter
check and clean media in your filter,,
look for somthing dead

Now im going against other advice given about your uv filter ,, i would turn it on as it is good for preventing ICH and as you have 3 ich magnets in one tank i would keep on ,,,

as asked above do you have live rock if so how much if you have and have enough remove filters ,, do you have enough flow (power heads) if so live rock and a skimmeris all you should need for fitration, with a good flow
Hope this helps

cthoughts1

Thank you for your guys, especially cerianthus. I understand that if the tang gets to big I'll either have to rehouse it in a bigger tank or find someone to adopt it. I'm rather consciencious when it comes to fish keeping, so I try to do all my research prior to taking any next step. I messed up by getting the three tangs all at once. Anyhow, I did partial water changes (20%) the first three days I noticed the spike. The LFS told me to stop any more water changes and I have done so since Thursday. Should I continue? As far as live rock, I have about 20 pounds of it in there so far, I know I need at least another 60 pounds.

So I guess the next question is: continue with the water changes or let it run its course?

Also, I am looking into an additional filter. I understand wet/dry is the way to go. Anyone have any experience with the Eheim 2227/2229 wet/dry? I understand Eheim is supposed to be top of the line. Also the reason I am considering a cannister and not a sump is because of my fear that the return pump may stop working and that everything will overflow, etc, etc... (just have bad luck like that). Any other recommendations? I'm looking for pretty much the best stand alone filter for a 75 gallon saltwater tank.

Thanks for your help so far.. BTW the skimmer was put on last night after these posts and after I did more reading. Thanks!

cthoughts1

Hey Nemo addict,

Thanks for the advice. I have two powerheads, both hooked up to the undergravel filter, one on each rear corner of the tank. I use them primarily to circulate water. I have a third spare powerhead that I can hook up if needed, should I hook it up? Also any advice on a stand alone filter? (Even though I'd use it in conjunction with the filters I already have). Like I stated, I'm leaning a bit towards the Eheim 2227, any thoughts on that?

Thanks.

au01st

Properly set up plumbing will not overflow the sump, that is a myth. The overflow box has teeth, and the water will only drain to the level of the teeth. I won't go into detail, but there is a lot of simple physics/fluid mechanics of how/why overflow boxes work.

As for the tangs, that's too many. If you told the store you had a 75, and he told you 3 would be better than 2 (as opposed to what he should have said, 1 is better than 2), I would not go back there for anything.

You can find whatever you want on the internet, so just because you found a site that says one thing, you can't take it as the word of god, you need to investigate multiple sources and make the best decision for the fish, not necessarily what you like best.

cthoughts1

Au01st,

Thanks for the criticizm, I think it'll be obvious if the fish outgrows the tank, and when that time comes, like I stated before, I'll do right by the fish. Now any advice on the proper filtration system or on how to lower the Nitrites or Nitrates?

nemo addict

If sump setup properly then they wont over flow as syphone would be broke (if using a overflow box) and no more water would get to the sump ,, same with a durso,,

You can buy a sealed sump/filter box AQUA MEDIC BLUE REEF 1000 (google)
which are pretty expensive but are very good

nemo addict

Not always obvious google stunting of fish and it explains why the external fish stops growing in a small aquarium but the insides dont so normally ends up dying , google and it will explain in depth

Peterpiper

Hi, First thing I would do is throw the undergravel filters, they have no place in a marine aquarium, as all they do is pull and store all the rubbish into the sand/graval.
With all this "gunk" in the sand/graval its no wonder you are having issues.
The nitrites are there due to a increased bio load, so you need to do water changes to control them till your bio filter catches up.
The ntirates are controled by doing the required water changes.
You will nedd to test each week to see how much water needs to be changed.
Tangs.. ich magnets when stressed.. 3 in a 75...mmm.
How much LR is in the tank?

au01st

I don't think it will be obvious. If not provided adequate room, the fish's growth will be stunted, which can lead to a host of other problems. Your thread title states that you have problems with nitrites and nitrates, and the main reason why is because you have fish that should not be in that system.


Back to the overflow box, if set up properly, siphon is never lost, not even in a power outage. I can unplug my pump to do work in the sump, plug it back in, and everything starts running again. It's a controlled siphon, controlled by different levels of water in different containers. I can draw up some diagrams if anyone's interested.

cerianthus

Water changes should be performed according to nitrite level. if persist, continue small partials. If levels are droppping, no more!

As far as Eheim W/D, do not get it. It is top quality filter but it's just another canister w/ surging action becoming Nitrate factory with all the matters decaying b/n maintenace.

Do not buy W/D either, rather invest in LR for that money.

Since your tank is not Reef Ready (no built in internal overflow), can buy two of Overflow Box set (try Manhattan Reef or Central Reef Classified for 2nd hand). Two Overflow to ensure in case one fails (air pockets buildup in u-tubes which will slow down the flow). DO DIY sump:
Goole for info and schematic dwgs or you can design your own once understand the mechanics behind it. Do little research and I'm sure that you being responsible and caring hobbyist you are, will go out of limb to give fish a optimal condition in captivity.

Simple glass tank and couple of plexi glass or glass partitions.

Can even incorp refuge with proper partitioning and lighting (30 Long can be utilized as sump /refuge/holding tank for new arrival).

One more thing, w/o starting a debate among our member, my thought on 3 small to med tangs for 75G is not too much. I've seen fish fare better in smaller tnak than in large tank. It all depends on individual hobbyist.
Personall have added and kept lot more than 3 tangs in 75G (starting w/ juv, like to see them grow, one of the reason why I'm into this hobby and plants).

20LB of LR for 75 G is not really that much. But do take precaution when adding new LR to tank w/ fish. Google for what to look out for.

I do not know why NO2 spiked, but adding 3 tangs should not have caused surging of NO2 if tank was well established. HAve added more than 3 in samller tank w/o problems but I had more LR in the tank. When I had few tanks going, my main bio-filter was LR. Some tanks w/ Sump (Reef Tanks) and some tanks w/o Mech/chemical filter but w/ protein skimmer and PHs for good circulation.
You might find this shocking but in late80 or early 90's, FiJi LR went as high as $23/lb and it was not readily available like these days.. It was pretty expensive hobby then and still is but not as bad as then.

Enough said, hope all goes well since you have and will be doing whatever that will be necessary to provide good home for your fish.

cthoughts1

Thanks for your help guys.. I was considering the Eheim 2227 as an addition to the eheim 2217, the berlin turbo skimmer, the turbo twist uv sterilizer and the tetratec hangon I have. I use the powerheads on the undergravel filter more to provide water circulation in the tank than to actually filter. As far as the sump goes, I don't know too much about it and am a bit reluctant to have the water pouring into the open sump under the tank.. I know many people recommend it as the best way to go.. I'm not as experienced as I would like to be in terms of setting up a sump, or knowing what exactly is needed.. If anyone can point me in the right direction as to what would be optimal for my 75 gallon tank (ex. name and place online where I can get it, and just help me out in terms of what else I would need to properly set it up and get it running - I would be very appreciative) I'd definitely take a closer look at the sump option.. As far as the tangs are concerned (not to get into a debate on this), I, like cerianthus, enjoy watching the fish grow from small to a bit larger.. When I feel they've outgrown the tank I'll make sure to find a loving home for them.. Thanks for your help and input guys..