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August 10th, 2010
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Mixing salt in new tank - been cloudy for nearly 24 hours!
Hey,
I have recently bought my new tank, my first reef tank!
So anyway, I added the water minus some for sand and live rock, and then have been slowly adding salt, one bit at a time. I had just added pretty much my last bit to get from 1.021 to almost 1.026. I added this salt about 20 hours ago, and then went to bed. I woke up and the salt was all white and cloudy. I have just came home and it is still like it was. I have been mixing the salt with 2 pumps, one with an aeration tube thing on it for the aeration. I have some photos here: http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/P1010112.jpg http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/P1010113.jpg http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...P1010111-1.jpg
Does anybody know what is wrong with it? Will adding more water to the top of the tank solve the issue?
Thanks! | 
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August 10th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Hi there, Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKneebone  Hey,
I have recently bought my new tank, my first reef tank!
So anyway, I added the water minus some for sand and live rock, and then have been slowly adding salt, one bit at a time. I had just added pretty much my last bit to get from 1.021 to almost 1.026. I added this salt about 20 hours ago, and then went to bed. I woke up and the salt was all white and cloudy. I have just came home and it is still like it was. I have been mixing the salt with 2 pumps, one with an aeration tube thing on it for the aeration. I have some photos here: http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/P1010112.jpg http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/P1010113.jpg http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...P1010111-1.jpg
Does anybody know what is wrong with it? Will adding more water to the top of the tank solve the issue?
Thanks! | For some reason the pictures did not show. From what I know salt mix can be easily disolved in the water, not sure what brand you are using. When I do my mix it disolves almos instantaneuosly. It has a slight cloudyness to it but it's pretty much clear. It only takes one day to get crystal clear. | |
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August 10th, 2010
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| | Fish Bum
| I think your problem is that you are adding the salt directly to your tank. What you should be doing is taking a 5 gallon bucket, use a water conditioner like "Prime" to get rid of contaminents if you're using tap water, then if you're using Instant Ocean or Tropic Marin salt you should stir that up using the appropriate measurements for 5 gallons in the bucket.......I believe it is 2 1/2 cups of mixture. Stir it up very vigorously in the bucket, and then let it sit for about 10-15 minutes, and it should clear up on it's own........ | |
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August 11th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Hi there, Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty21 I think your problem is that you are adding the salt directly to your tank. At this stage of his setup I really don't think it makes a difference since he has no sand or rock in the tank yet. | | |
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August 11th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Pour a cup of salt in a bucket no stirring or mixing? It will totally cloud the water! It may not be getting mixed properly.
Last edited by MizRamzi; August 11th, 2010 at 06:05 PM.
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August 12th, 2010
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| | Fish Bum
| If you don't mix the salt thoroughly, it's just going to sit at the bottom of your tank until the water breaks the crystals down..........which will take a lot longer, than if you pre-mixed it in a bucket, and then added it to the tank. If there is no pyhsical force like stirring to break down the crystals, the water will just eat away at the salt, and in doing that, the crystals will slowly emit the salt and make the water cloudy continuously. Think of adding some spoonfuls of sugar to an ice tea or cup of coffee.........all the sugar settles at the bottom if you don't stir it. If you taste it, the very top of the glass tastes like you didn't add any sugar, but as you get towards the bottom, the presence of sugar is there.
This will also affect the salinity readings because if you're taking a sample from the very top of the tank, and the salt isn't fully broken down yet, it will be innaccurate. When the water fully breaks down the crystals later, there will be spike in the salinity, due to the fact too much was added in the first place.
Just my opinion, but I always pre-mix my salt........... | |
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August 12th, 2010
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| | Fish Helper
| Congrats on your reef tank and welcome to FL!! 
Sorry, I'm not much help. I buy my water from the LFS. Purely for convenience!! | |
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August 12th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Yeah, probably doesn't make a difference where you mix it right now - in the future, though, always mix in another container.
Do you have powerheads in the tank? If so are they directed toward the salt? It will stay cloudy for a while no matter what, which is why you mix separately a couple of days before.
Also, how long has this tank been running? Sounds like you have only added water and salt thus far. Have you done anything to start the cycle? The water will turn cloudy for around a month or so when the tank is cycling. | |
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August 15th, 2010
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Thanks guys!
the stuff all settled to the bottom. I think it was calcium precipitate. I just put sand over the top!
Thanks again! | |
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August 15th, 2010
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| | Fish Mentor
| This is a good subject for all NEVER ADD SALT TO TANK always always mix in separate container. Doesn't matter if it is new or not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |
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August 16th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang Man This is a good subject for all NEVER ADD SALT TO TANK always always mix in separate container. Doesn't matter if it is new or not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Why is it a bad thing to mix the sal with the water in a new tank before it is set up? | |
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August 16th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by locoyo386 Why is it a bad thing to mix the sal with the water in a new tank before it is set up? | I probably wouldn't be too concerned with it, but the salt mix often has some impurities in it that will settle on the bottom. Little pieces of plastic and maybe more harmful things. These likely wouldn't make it into the tank if you were pumping it in separately, plus if you're mixing in a tank with sand in it then it might be hard to get the impurities out. | |
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August 17th, 2010
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| | Fish Mentor
| Quote:
Originally Posted by locoyo386 Why is it a bad thing to mix the sal with the water in a new tank before it is set up? | Because it does not fully mix properly in a tank most salt ends up on the bottom and does not mix right and can cause gasses to form. | |
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August 18th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Also your salinity at the bottom of the tank will be ten times what it is near the surface.
You cannot exactly measure the amount of salt in a tank that's already filled with water. Say you have a 20g and you mix 1/2 cup per gallon, then add your sand, LR and the total water volume goes down. You wind up with salt water mixed for 20g and you may only have 13~14g, then you'll have to add more water therefore lowering your SG/salinity.
I also wouldn't recommend just *covering* the salt up with sand. That salt is still going to dissolve causing your parameters to become unstable. Stability and consistency are #1.
I don't agree with the statement of impurities in salt mixes. If anything the impurities will come from your tap water, unless of course your using RO water then that is totally pure.
Any experienced reefer will tell you, never mix your salt in tank. | |
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August 18th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang Man Because it does not fully mix properly in a tank most salt ends up on the bottom and does not mix right and can cause gasses to form. | I thought all salt was highly soluble and all you had to was make sure it did mix. When I mix my salt I make sure that I stir the base with a wooden spoon or something like that. I have never had residule at the bottom of the tank.
Thus I guess my suggestion, to those that want to mix the salt in the tank, would be to make sure to stir the salt mix the settles at the bottom fo the tank, then let the powerhead mix the water continously. Note that this should not be done in a tank that has sand or rock already in it, as the salt will mix with the sand and develop higher concentration of salt level at the base (subtrate level). This could lead to wrong readings of the true salinity of the water. In the long run, after the water has moved enough the salinity level might reach a more overall stable level, thus the salinity might go up as the salt water at the base or subtrate level will mix with the rest of the tank. | |
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August 18th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| Hi there, Quote:
Originally Posted by MizRamzi Also your salinity at the bottom of the tank will be ten times what it is near the surface. This is only true initialy as the salt mix disovles in the water. Shortly after stirring the entire water, the level will reach a more uniform (if not complete) level.
You cannot exactly measure the amount of salt in a tank that's already filled with water. If you have a refractometer you can be extremely accuate, at least with regards to the levels that can be harmful even to corals. That is why I recomend to buy one when mixing your own saltwater.
Say you have a 20g and you mix 1/2 cup per gallon, (I wouod estimate a salinity of about 1.021-1.025 at this ratio) then add your sand, LR and the total water volume goes down. You wind up with salt water mixed for 20g and you may only have 13~14g, then you'll have to add more water therefore lowering your sg/salinity. Not sure exactly what you are saying here. If you add 20g of water to a 30g tank then add 1/2 cup of salt, once that salt mixes in the water you will reach a set salinity level. This salinity level is based on the water to salt retio and nothing more. The equipment reading that level will have to compensate for temperature as this affects the reading of salinity (note that it does not affect the ratio of water to salt but only the reading from the equipment). Also why would adding the sand and rock lower the water level of 20g (already mixed with the salt) to 13-14 gallons? Where did the 6-7 gallons of saltwater go? Note that if you meant that if you have a 20g tank and have 20g of mixed saltwater, then you place the sand and the rock. This will mean that you have to take saltwater (already mixed) from the tnk to accomodate for the volume of the sand and the rock. Now lets say you under-estimated the volume by 5 gallons. Meaning that after you added the sand and the rock, you are 5 gallons short of the total volume of the tank. At this point you are giong to have to add water to top of the tank. Notice that the 5 gallons missing are not from evaporation, then you would have to add mixed saltwater at the same salinity level that you want your tank to be. Thus at this point, yes, you would mix the salt and the water in a different container untill the level desired is reached, then add that slatwater to the tank as needed.
I also wouldn't recommend just *covering* the salt up with sand. That salt is still going to dissolve causing your parameters to become unstable. Stability and consistency are #1. Good point, that is definately a no-no.
I don't agree with the statement of impurities in salt mixes. Nor do I as it might imply that their quality of salt mix is not good at all.
If anything the impurities will come from your tap water, unless of course your using RO water then that is totally pure. Good point, that is unless you can measure the TDS in the tap water and find that they are negligeable.
Any experienced reefer will tell you, never mix your salt in tank. This, in my opinion, only holds true after the tank has been setup, or the sand and rock have been added, and not at the beggining of the set up, as is the case here. | | |
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August 19th, 2010
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| | Fish Mentor
| Yes when mixing salt you must cycle or aggitate water for 24 hours before using in tank salinity in a tank not mixed right will cause problems and stress fish corals inverts because the things that were mentioned. | |
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August 23rd, 2010
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| i premixed my salt in a bucket, and added to my tank, but it is still really cloudy. salinity readings are good. water is circulating with a regular hang on back filter, as i am waiting on ym skimmer to arrive. what else could be causing cloudiness? thanks. | |
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August 24th, 2010
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| | Fish Mentor
| So you are just starting this setup. Can you give me more detail as to what you have for equipment and tank etc.Where you had purchused LR and whatever else you have  The more you can tell me the more info I will have to answer your questions this is a delicate hobby and has certain steps to follow to be succesful!!! | |
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August 27th, 2010
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| | Fish Keeper
| How long did you let it sit after you pre-mixed it? I let mine sit for two days, though one day should be fine. in most salt mixes there is more than just salt in the mix. There are other elements that need to dissolve. What kind of salt mix are you using?
Ideally you want to mix it in the separate container with a powerhead and when you get critters, also a heater. It's quite a shock to put cold water into a heated tank. Water temperatures will also throw off your salinity readings, too. I leave my powerhead running as soon as I pour the salt in until I'm ready to do the water change. | |
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