MissMTS

I have a 20 gallon tall tank sitting around and I have been brainstorming what I should do with it. A FOWLR set up came to mind, but I don't know anything about saltwater set ups, so I have a few questions for you guys. I am trying to do this on a budget hopefully in a couple months (maybe as my Christmas present), so I am trying to keep the costs down by using equipment that I already have.

1) I would a HOB filter and a powerhead do the job as far as filtration and water movement are concerned? Is a protein skimmer necessary?

2) If I have 40 watts of lighting over the tank, would I be able to possibly add any corals, anemones, urchins, etc?

3) I have heard that with SW, the stocking guidelines are 2-5 gallons per one inch of fish. Is this correct? How to inverts such as crabs, shrimp, and snails figure into the stocking levels?

Thanks

pepetj

Hi MissMTS

1) Yes you can use a HOB (e.g. AquaClear 70 or 110) either as HOB refugium to grow macro-algae or HOB sump to place chunks of live rock that will provide a lot of surface for beneficial bacteria and other useful forms of life to keep your water reasonably clean. A protein skimmer is not a must but you will likely need to stay put with your maintenance schedule. One powerhead should work for adequate circulation, and you could improve the quality of it by attaching an inexpensive accessory (10USD) that converts it in a decent wave-making.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...3&pcatid=11363

2) If you have a lamp assemby capable of handling 40 watts you could combine one actinic lamp with a daylight (I like actinic + 10,000K) there are a few corals you could keep but I doubt anemones are possible, specially if you don't have a protein skimmer. As far as urchins... I believe they need coraline algae (which might grow in low light) and could end feeding from your lovely corals. Other inverts are doable with these lights, like snails, crabs...

3) Personally I don't use that guideline at all (I keep two Clown Fish and one Mandarin Dragonet in 20 gals of water). I don't consider most inverts as contributors for bio-load but fish/invert compatibility (as well as reef safe if going with corals) and tank size requirements need to be combined carefully. Issues as territoriality, con-specific aggression, tank region, nocturnal/diurnal, type of diet... should be considered as well.

Keep in mind I'm a total newby in SW. Wait for the experts.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

MissMTS

Hi Pepetj,

Thanks so much for the info Mandarin Dragonets are beautiful fish and I have always wanted one, but I have heard that they are very hard fish to keep. Has yours done okay for you?

I actually have a spare AC110 that I could put on the tank, would the flow rate be too much?

What type of lighting does macro algae grow under? I have seen some macro algae tanks that have been awesome.

Also, is live sand recommended?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm curious and there is so much to learn

pepetj

MisssMTS: No need to be sorry, I truly enjoy giving a hand here (as well as receiving yours).

Martin, my Mandarin Dragonet is doing great. He eats live food only (tiny crustaceans as copepods, amphipods). We play hide and seek (he hides, I seek) for the time being.

It is not difficult for me to collect algae mats full of his natural food (Caribbean version of it) since I live in Santo Domingo. If my farm tank crashes I can repopulate it easily. Read around and decide if you are up to keeping one.

The AC 110 is perfect for this project, you could always tamper its output flow. There are a couple of links with easy to do modifications. Check for pics in posts #8, #9, #27 and #28 of this thread (intended for a AC 110 in an Eclipse tank) so you get an idea.
http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/inde...pic=52245&st=0

Macroalgae usually trhives in common daylight lamps (available from 5,000 K to 6,400-6700 K). I keep macroalgae in my display tank with 10,000K, 18,000K and actinic lamps while in my small sump I use a hardware store CF rated at 22W and 6,500K placed in a garden lamp.

I love aragonite sand. You can get it live or seed it (Live aragonite reef sand is what I use). I use a deep sand bed of 6" depth in my 24" tall (20gal), of 4" in my 12" tall (10gal) refugium (farming live food for my Mandarin), and 3" in the small refugium section of my DIY 6gal sump.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

locoyo386

Hi there,
If it is FOWLR, than the HOB will be fine for mechanichal filtration. The power head depends on two things, How strong it is and if you end up having cyano bacteria in the tank. As far as the protein skimmer, in my personal opinion you will not need one for FOWLR, but if you go into corals you might need it as you are going to need to keep a tougher eye on Nitrates.

That I am not sure, but I do know that corals highly dpend on light.

This is a very debateable subjest. I use a different method for stocking fish that considers the size of the tank and the volume of the tank in respect to the size of the fisht that you want to stock. I don't consider the stocking of invertibrates in with the stocking of the fish, I consider them independet of each other. The stocking of invertibrates is also dependent on the size of the tank, but not so much the volume.

locoyo386

The flow rate will be fine, what is the flow rate of the powerhead you have?

Live sand and live rock are recomended but not neccesary. Highly recomended though. I have tanks that only have a couple of PVC pipe pieces for hiding places, but they are quarintine tanks. The sand and rocks hellp with biological filtration, thus allowing for bigger bioloads.

Don't worry about asking question, that is the learning process. Learn and enjoy your tank/tanks.

nemo addict

Hi just want to put a thought in your head,, smaller tanks are less forgiving so the points above about a protein skimmer i would really reccomened having one, As its a tall tank i think your lights should be ok for polyps mushrooms xenia ect ,if put higher up in the tank ,

Oil_Fan

I have 3 SW tanks. A 95 gallon, 65 gallon and a 20. I will say this about the 20. It is by far the easiest to look after. It's a bare bottom FOWLR.

If I need to do a water change, no problem. 5 gallons gets me a nice 25% change. I have 2 fish in mine along with 2 astrea snails. I don't have a skimmer which is also why I do 25% water changes. That said, I would recommend a skimmer.

MissMTS

Thanks so much for all of the info guys I am really enjoying reading through your answers to my questions. I will definitely look into getting a protein skimmer when it comes time to set up the tank. I know that it would be a useful addition, but I just don't want to have to spend a ton of money on this project. I am thinking that I will use live sand along with live rock since I have heard so many good things about it.

I am really thinking that I would like to do a tank with a few polyps and mushrooms along with macroalgae. Can anyone recommend any fish that would do well with both of these. Are there any starfish that stay small enough for a 20 gallon?

I have two powerheads that are rated at 400 GPH. Is that good?

Also, having never set up a saltwater tank before I'm not really sure how it works. I would like to use biospira to cycle the tank. Does that mean I can add everything at once like in freshwater tanks, or do I need to add live rock first, wait a couple weeks and add a fish or two, and so on and so forth?

Thanks so much for all of the help thus far!

locoyo386

Hi there,

The 400 gph should be ok, some may say you might need more flow when keeping corals. As far as setting up your tank;
1.) Start by deciding if you are going to use a sump.
2.) If you are going to use a sump than you need to plan the plumbing and pump selection,
3.) If you are not using a sump (not really needed for that size tank), than the first thing you need to is set up the filters and place the heater where you want them.
4.) Place some salt water (premixed or store bought) maybe 2-3 inches from the base of the tank.
5.) Place your rock as you would like it. I would sugest you buy it the day that you are going to set up the tank.
6.) Once you are satisfied with the rock work, than start placing the sand a little at a time around the entire base.
7.) Put saltwater as required to keep the water level above the sand.
8.) Once the entired sand is in place, than continou to add saltwater till the tank is full. Pour the water slowly on the highest point of any rock ypu have put inside.
9.) Once the tank is full, than start the mehcnichal filters and heater. You could start the powerhead also , but I would recomend you don't. Start the power once the water has cleared (you will get a white coloration from the sand untill it is cleared out by the filters, this will make is hard for you to see if the powerhead is picking up sand).
10.) Decide how you are going to cycle the tank; ammonia, cocktail shrimp, ghost feed or simply using the live rock.
11.) Than let the cycle take it's course, it should take about 2-4 weeks, depending on the method of cycling you deside to use.
12.) Test for ammonia, it will depend on which method you use how early the ammonia will start to show. Thus you might want to test daily till you see ammonia.
12.) Once you have tested positive for ammonia, than wait about 3-5 days and test for nitrites.
13.) You should test positive for nitrites by this time.
14.) Than test about 5-7 days after that for both ammonia and nitrites. If both of them are zero than you are set to go. If not than make sure that the readings are going down. After that it's just a matter of testing and wating till you get zero ammonia and nitites (by the way once ammonia test reads zero it should be zero from then on.).
15.) If you are testing zero for both, and you are going to keep corals than you should do water changes to reduce the nitrates.
16.) After that, than you could start adding things a little at a time and around every week or other week.
17.) Test once in a while (around every week or so) to make sure that you are not adding to much things at once and start to see ammonia again. Before you start adding anything make sure you have thought about what you want to keep to make sure that they are compatible with the reef you are going to set up.

ATP

The live rock/live sand breaks up ammonia into nitrates so I always use it while cycling a tank. I add LR usually after a day of running water when the salinity is correct. Note that bare bottom is recommended because sand is harder to take care. The sand does promote algae growth if there is too much so I would put a maximum of 1 inch.

Just about any reef safe fish is fine with the corals you're thinking about.

Lighting:
I would go higher than 40 watts if possible. I recommend PC (power compact) for a 20 gallon. I recommend anything over 60 watts with equal amount daylight and actinic bulbs. Actinic is needed for corals and it promotes coraline algae growth on your glass and rocks. (coraline algae is good algae that shows your tank is doing well because of good calcium levels).

Unfortunately, I've never had any experience with starfish except for a blue linkia which died after a week. I do know that when you do get one, you'll need to acclimate it for a hours meaning like over 4 hours. Some people I know acclimate them for half a day. When you put them in your tank, never expose them to air.

On how to set up, I agree with locoyo. A little note that when you do water changes to remove nitrates, I would wait a day or two after the water changes as almost every water change will mess up your calcium, KH, magnesium levels. I do water changes every two weeks roughly about 10%

an idea:
I would make the skimmer HOB, but you could make a HOB over flow or drill your tank or even buy a HOV overflow and make a refugim out of another 10 or 15 gallon. I recommend this because you'll have more space, but you will need to make baffles to separate the return pump section, fuge, and were the water comes from the tank.

ATP,

nemo addict

To answer your question on starfish , brittle stars are a good bet just not green ones , make sure if buying starfish they are reef safe and also dont eat fish , as the green brittle star fish can ,, brittle stard are good scavengers and will keep your live rock clean