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Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Should I get a SW tank?

Hi..... my mom really wants some seahorses from a petstore but I only have have FW tanks....... What would I need to get started
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
I'd start by picking up a copy of Robert Fenner's "The conscientious marine aquarist" and getting more familiar with marine tanks. Maybe your mom would like to take a look at it too. Jumping into it without a ton of research will probably lead to disappointment and frustration, and that's no fun for you or your mom. Plus, keeping a marine tank is a lot more expensive than a FW tank, and researching equipment before you buy will save you a lot of money- there is lot of junk out there that you'll want to avoid. If you want to save even more money, I'd suggest asking your parents' permission to join a reef club in your area. Here, a lot of LFS's offer discounts to club members, and you can find a lot of nice equipment used. I recently saved over $100 on a light strip by buying it used from a club member. Plus, you can learn a lot by going to club meetings.

Finally, I don't want to disappoint you, but I don't think that seahorses are the way to go for someone new to SW. They are not easy to keep and often require target feeding several times a day with live food. I've been keeping SW for about 2.5 years and I still wouldn't feel comfortable trying seahorses. That's not to say you couldn't do it with a ton of research and planning, but I just wanted you to be prepared that it's a ton of work.

If you're serious about keeping a marine tank, take a look at this list of beginner fish and see if there's anything you and your mom would like. If you see something cool, we can help point you in the right direction with what tank setup you'll need to keep it.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harpua2002 View Post
I'd start by picking up a copy of Robert Fenner's "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" and getting more familiar with marine tanks. Maybe your mom would like to take a look at it too. Jumping into it without a ton of research will probably lead to disappointment and frustration, and that's no fun for you or your mom. Plus, keeping a marine tank is a lot more expensive than a FW tank, and researching equipment before you buy will save you a lot of money- there is lot of junk out there that you'll want to avoid. If you want to save even more money, I'd suggest asking your parents' permission to join a reef club in your area. Here, a lot of LFS's offer discounts to club members, and you can find a lot of nice equipment used. I recently saved over $100 on a light strip by buying it used from a club member. Plus, you can learn a lot by going to club meetings.

Finally, I don't want to disappoint you, but I don't think that seahorses are the way to go for someone new to SW. They are not easy to keep and often require target feeding several times a day with live food. I've been keeping SW for about 2.5 years and I still wouldn't feel comfortable trying seahorses. That's not to say you couldn't do it with a ton of research and planning, but I just wanted you to be prepared that it's a ton of work.

If you're serious about keeping a marine tank, take a look at this list of beginner fish and see if there's anything you and your mom would like. If you see something cool, we can help point you in the right direction with what tank setup you'll need to keep it.
I dont think there are any clubs in Buffalo NY. Maybe I should start with some clown fish or something. What kinds of things would I need for a SW tank. Thank ou for your help so far I will give you a good rep for it
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
Hmmm, I did a Google search for you and turned up a couple of names but no websites. There is a marine aquarium club in your area it seems, but its forum is on reefcentral.com in the regional forums section. Reef Central is not as family-oriented as FishLore, so be sure to ask your parents for permission to join if you are interested in checking it out.

As far as starting out in SW, I would encourage you to get the largest tank you can. Just like FW, it is easier to maintain stable water quality in a larger tank, but IMO it's even more important for SW. 30 gallons or more would be a good size, and I would not recommend starting with less than 20 gallons.

Are you interested in keeping fish and corals, or fish only? If you want a reef tank with corals, your lighting is going to be a big part of your expense. At a minimum, you will need multiple power compact bulbs. High output T5's run cooler and put out more light, so I'd pick those over power compacts. Metal halide lighting is another option, but it is more expensive than PC or T5, consumes a lot more power, and runs a lot hotter. The upside is that MH lighting gives you the most choices for corals out of any type of lighting. If you aren't interested in corals right now, you can use normal output flourescent lighting like what you probably already have. You can start with fish only and upgrade your lighting later if you change your mind and want corals.

Some people keep tanks with just fish and no live rock, but I'd recommend getting some live rock for sure. It provides the biological filtration for your tank with the organisms that live on it and in it. Live rock can be expensive. Around here it is $7-8 per pound at the LFS's. You'll want roughly 1-1.5 pounds per gallon, as a very general guideline. Look for live rock that is light and porous. That gives beneficial organisms lots of surface area to grow on. You can order live rock online if you'd rather do that. When it ships to you, there will be die-off, but the organisms will come back over time. The die-off can cycle your tank for you. I bought cured live rock from the LFS, but cycled with a raw shrimp anyway just to be sure. If your rock is cured (meaning there is a lot of beneficial organisms living on/in it and very little die-off), it is possible to cycle very quickly. My tank cycled in less than 2 weeks because the rock was cured. Remember, it is still important to take things very slowly after the tank cycles. SW tanks mature much more slowly than FW.

You'll also need to buy some substrate, unless you want a bare bottom tank. I use CaribSea fiji pink aragonite sand. Crushed coral isn't really recommended because it can trap waste and lead to water quality issues. You don't need to buy the expensive live sand. Any sand you buy will become live with time.

For water, it is highly recommended that you use RO/DI. Some people use tap water, but there are so many unknowns and variables in water quality that it isn't really a good idea IMO. Tap water can lead to algae problems, and that's really frustrating. There are RO/DI units on eBay that cost $100-150. You'll need to mix your own SW with salt mix, and also keep some fresh RO/DI water around to top off your tank as the water evaporates. You will have to keep an eye on your specific gravity/salinity. To do that, you can buy a hydrometer (cheap, but not very accurate) or, preferably, a refractometer (more expensive, but much more accurate). You can get one for about $40 on eBay. I keep my tank at 1.025-1.026 for corals. If you're keeping fish only, you can keep SG a little lower.

Another thing to think about is a protein skimmer. You don't have to use one, but it helps to keep the water cleaner.

You'll need to decide if you want to use a sump. Some benefits to a sump include more water volume in your system (helps with stability), being able to add more live rock (helps with bio filtration), being able to use a refugium (macro algae grows and uses up nutrients, can help with nuisance algae and nitrate) and being able to hide a lot of your equipment so you don't have to look at it in the display tank. Take a look at www.melevsreef.com for some examples of sumps, because I know this doesn't make much sense if you've never seen one, LOL. If you use a sump, you'll need a drilled tank OR hang on back overflow, plumbing, and a return pump. You don't have to use a sump, though.

SW tanks need a lot more flow than FW tanks, so you'll need some powerheads in there. I use Hydor Koralias and would recommend them to anyone. They are totally worth the money. You'll also need a good quality heater. Ebo Jagers and Stealths are nice.

I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff here but I hope it's been helpful. I can't give you any exact recommendations for equipment without knowing what your plans are for tank size, fish only or reef, etc., so talk it over with your mom and see what you can come up with. If you have specific questions, I'll try to come up with specific answers.

Good luck!
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harpua2002 View Post
Hmmm, I did a Google search for you and turned up a couple of names but no websites. There is a marine aquarium club in your area it seems, but its forum is on reefcentral.com in the regional forums section. Reef Central is not as family-oriented as FishLore, so be sure to ask your parents for permission to join if you are interested in checking it out.

As far as starting out in SW, I would encourage you to get the largest tank you can. Just like FW, it is easier to maintain stable water quality in a larger tank, but IMO it's even more important for SW. 30 gallons or more would be a good size, and I would not recommend starting with less than 20 gallons.

Are you interested in keeping fish and corals, or fish only? If you want a reef tank with corals, your lighting is going to be a big part of your expense. At a minimum, you will need multiple power compact bulbs. High output T5's run cooler and put out more light, so I'd pick those over power compacts. Metal halide lighting is another option, but it is more expensive than PC or T5, consumes a lot more power, and runs a lot hotter. The upside is that MH lighting gives you the most choices for corals out of any type of lighting. If you aren't interested in corals right now, you can use normal output flourescent lighting like what you probably already have. You can start with fish only and upgrade your lighting later if you change your mind and want corals.

Some people keep tanks with just fish and no live rock, but I'd recommend getting some live rock for sure. It provides the biological filtration for your tank with the organisms that live on it and in it. Live rock can be expensive. Around here it is $7-8 per pound at the LFS's. You'll want roughly 1-1.5 pounds per gallon, as a very general guideline. Look for live rock that is light and porous. That gives beneficial organisms lots of surface area to grow on. You can order live rock online if you'd rather do that. When it ships to you, there will be die-off, but the organisms will come back over time. The die-off can cycle your tank for you. I bought cured live rock from the LFS, but cycled with a raw shrimp anyway just to be sure. If your rock is cured (meaning there is a lot of beneficial organisms living on/in it and very little die-off), it is possible to cycle very quickly. My tank cycled in less than 2 weeks because the rock was cured. Remember, it is still important to take things very slowly after the tank cycles. SW tanks mature much more slowly than FW.

You'll also need to buy some substrate, unless you want a bare bottom tank. I use CaribSea fiji pink aragonite sand. Crushed coral isn't really recommended because it can trap waste and lead to water quality issues. You don't need to buy the expensive live sand. Any sand you buy will become live with time.

For water, it is highly recommended that you use RO/DI. Some people use tap water, but there are so many unknowns and variables in water quality that it isn't really a good idea IMO. Tap water can lead to algae problems, and that's really frustrating. There are RO/DI units on eBay that cost $100-150. You'll need to mix your own SW with salt mix, and also keep some fresh RO/DI water around to top off your tank as the water evaporates. You will have to keep an eye on your specific gravity/salinity. To do that, you can buy a hydrometer (cheap, but not very accurate) or, preferably, a refractometer (more expensive, but much more accurate). You can get one for about $40 on eBay. I keep my tank at 1.025-1.026 for corals. If you're keeping fish only, you can keep SG a little lower.

Another thing to think about is a protein skimmer. You don't have to use one, but it helps to keep the water cleaner.

You'll need to decide if you want to use a sump. Some benefits to a sump include more water volume in your system (helps with stability), being able to add more live rock (helps with bio filtration), being able to use a refugium (macro algae grows and uses up nutrients, can help with nuisance algae and nitrate) and being able to hide a lot of your equipment so you don't have to look at it in the display tank. Take a look at www.melevsreef.com for some examples of sumps, because I know this doesn't make much sense if you've never seen one, LOL. If you use a sump, you'll need a drilled tank OR hang on back overflow, plumbing, and a return pump. You don't have to use a sump, though.

SW tanks need a lot more flow than FW tanks, so you'll need some powerheads in there. I use Hydor Koralias and would recommend them to anyone. They are totally worth the money. You'll also need a good quality heater. Ebo Jagers and Stealths are nice.

I'm sure I've forgotten some stuff here but I hope it's been helpful. I can't give you any exact recommendations for equipment without knowing what your plans are for tank size, fish only or reef, etc., so talk it over with your mom and see what you can come up with. If you have specific questions, I'll try to come up with specific answers.

Good luck!
Wow way different then FW....... it sounds like to much work for me but thank you so much for your help

Last edited by matt6765; July 7th, 2009 at 02:59 PM.
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
Anytime.
Once you get going and figure out what to do, it really isn't that much more work than FW, it's just different. I can definitely understand your reservations though. I had been keeping FW for nearly 5 years when I finally worked up the nerve to try SW.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
what do you think the total cost for a 10 gallon nano cube with live rock 2 clownfish, anemone and a filter/ heater would be?
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Helper
 
matt you could get a 10g top fin tank, you will need special lighting for the anemone, a protein skimmer, I would reccomend the aqua c remorae .. it runs about $150 but is worth it.
I have a 10g with 2 ocellaris clown, but no anemone...dont have the right lighting, I have a 200gph marineland filter and an aqua c remora protein skimmer
I would estimate I have spent about$350 but again i didnt upgrade the lighting ($100 or so)
believe it or not my water stays stable and only needs changing every week and a half
kloseo is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
I would not recommend keeping an anemone in a 10 gallon. Clownfish don't need one anyway, and they can be difficult to keep and require a mature and stable tank. If you are interested in a simple tank setup, I found this sale on Drs. Foster & Smith.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...9&pcatid=15559
It's a 12 gallon all-in-one kit, and you get a stand with it. Remember, smaller tanks will need more attention to keep them stable. That said, I kept a BioCube 8 gallon tank with no problems. The all-in-one kits limit you on lighting and equipment, but are easy to set up and less confusing for a beginner.

With the 12 gallon tank, I think you could keep one clownfish. Ocellaris and percula clowns stay smaller than a lot of other species. In that tank, I'd stick with just the clown, and then you could add some cool shrimp or something like that. The tank I linked has power compact lighting and filtration built in. The lighting is adequate for a lot of soft corals like mushrooms and zoanthids, and some easy LPS corals, like frogspawn and candy cane. Again, you don't have to have corals if you don't want to. Look around on that site, because there are different sizes of cube tanks that you might like better. There is a Nano Cube 28 gal and a BioCube 29 gal, for example.

I can't estimate the cost of live rock or fish in your area because I live quite far from you, and prices tend to vary a lot. There are ways to go about SW more cheaply, but it's not going to be cheap. My husband and I have easily $1000 into our 20 gallon reef... but then again, we have a habit of buying some expensive coral. You can do it a lot cheaper than that.

Last edited by harpua2002; July 7th, 2009 at 03:20 PM.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
what about this... http://www.jbjnanocube.com/index1.html scroll down for more options about it
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
They seem to have some good deals. Maybe you could build a stand for one of those tanks.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
hmmmmm..... the link did not go to the right place..... I was looking at the 12 gallon nano- cubes.... is a protien skimmer importent or not
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
With a nano tank, it is possible to skip the protein skimmer and control excess nutrients through water changes. I did not use a skimmer on my Biocube 8, and I don't use one on the 20 gallon now, but I am upgrading to a 50 gallon and will definitely be using one then. When I had the Biocube, I did a 25% water change weekly and it worked out fine.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
ok..... you said in a 12 gallon you could have 1 clown fish.... is it posible that I could get 2 clownfish and a turbo snail or no
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
I wouldn't get 2 clowns. Some might disagree, but it is really important to stock lightly, especially as a beginner. SW stocking is a lot different than FW stocking.

We have a couple turbos in the 20 gallon and they do a great job at eating algae, but they are large and tend to knock over any corals that aren't epoxied to the rock, LOL. I'd stick with smaller snails like astrea and nassarius for a 12 gallon.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
ok..... thats to bad about the clown fish..... I was sort of wanting to breed them ( I know I am stupid). Any way thank you SOOOOOOO much for your help
matt6765 is offline  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
None of your questions are stupid. We all start somewhere, and everyone has a lot to learn.
Don't worry... our clown may be the only clown in the tank, but he's VERY entertaining! You don't need 2 to have fun with it.
harpua2002 is online now  
Old July 7th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Again thank you for your help...... my mom said she might get me the nano-cube for Christmas
matt6765 is offline  
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