30 Gallon Tank: I need help trying to finalize my community

[jaredseaman]

Hey everyone - I love the forum... its been really helpful to an obsessed newbie lol. Ok, so after months of research, I finally setup my 30 gallon tank that is currently making its first cycle. I want to do an all-out nano reef, but my lighting will only allow me to do soft corals (obviously in the future). All that I have living in there right now is about 35 lbs of fully cured LR (doing really well, lots of corraline algae and fun to watch critters).

Ive been refining my livestock plans and Id like to get some input. The answers Im hoping for are about:
-Compatibility issues (size, aggression, species)
-how many to add and at what rate (all at once, month to month)
-other suggestions/comments

Inverts

-cant decide on Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, pistol shrimp, or peppermint shrimp. How many shrimp would you reccomend?
-Zebra Turbo Snails and Spiny Star Astreas - Im thinking 25 total
-Blue and Zebra dwarf Hermits - Im thinking 25 total
-Porcelain or Emerald Crabs - cant decide which and how many
-Sea Star - Are any a good fit for my tank besides serpents and brittles? it doesn't really seem like it


Fish (3-5 will go in depending on size)

-Percula Clown Orange
-Banggai Cardinal
-Red/Green Mandarin Dragonet (I know they are difficult, but Im more than willing to give it special care)
-Dwarf Flame Angel (any experience with them in a smaller reef with inverts?)
-Royal Gramma


OK... what have you got?

[Shawnie]

welcome to fishlore jared!!

we have alot of great salty members (I am not one of them lol ) but just wanted to welcome you..the tank sounds awesome and hopefully you can share pics sometime with us!! goodluck

[cerianthus]

Wondering what kind of lighting? Dimension of tank? Maybe able to handle most of LPS, polyps, mushrooms along with softies.
Would wait on critters regardless what others might say. Its new tank and I would wait on most critters except cleaner shrimp which can be added just prior to fish , at the same or soon after.Look into blood shrimps but hide alot (deeper specimen)
I prefer to add corals first, especially if intends to keep certain pygmy angel (flame). Let corals establish first. Try to have small q/t tank for corals/fish, mainly for fish. Nothing crazy. Simple sponge filter will do in 5 or 10 G tank. No need to have Q/T running all the times. You can do as needed bases as long as you use most Q/T water from main tank.
Def. wait on Sea Star. One that will do well and wont tip over corals (sometimes coral dies when lands on other species of corals) will be burrowing Sea Stars although other colorful ones are avail but can become nuisance.

Who knows, you may already have some (brittle stars) in the tank. You may not have noticed yet.
Your selection of fish are OK. Just wait on them. Flame can be hit and miss as far nipping/bothering corals (lps). Mandarin is OK provided you give what they need as far as diet is concerned but again would be the last one to add.
Percula or false percula: would do few of very small ones and have them grow in the tank.
I dont see a problem having Royal Gramma although very aggressive toward its own kind. You can look into other cousins which are more colorful (Pseudochromis Sp) but cost more.
Any Pics of tank?

[harpua2002]

I would not suggest keeping a mandarin in a 30 gallon tank period, but especially if you won't have a refugium. If you decide to go for it anyway, make sure the tank is really stable and mature beforehand; this may take up to a year IMO. If you end up having to supplement its diet with bottled copepods, it will become quite an expensive fish to feed over time.

I don't keep hermit crabs at all, so I can't really advise there.

I have a pistol shrimp that has paired up with a yasha goby. They share a burrow and hang out together, but still I only see the pistol every once in a while. Don't expect to observe one very often Cleaner shrimp and peppermint shrimp are out in the open a lot more.

[cerianthus]

Originally Posted by harpua2002

I would not suggest keeping a mandarin in a 30 gallon tank period, but especially if you won't have a refugium. If you decide to go for it anyway, make sure the tank is really stable and mature beforehand; this may take up to a year IMO. If you end up having to supplement its diet with bottled copepods, it will become quite an expensive fish to feed over time.

I don't keep hermit crabs at all, so I can't really advise there.

I have a pistol shrimp that has paired up with a yasha goby. They share a burrow and hang out together, but still I only see the pistol every once in a while. Don't expect to observe one very often Cleaner shrimp and peppermint shrimp are out in the open a lot more.

I personally ordered/used uncured rock for reasons of more lifeformson the rocks but must be done in series of vats (will grow food for the fish) when properly done to save microbes. Had more luck with mandarin in smaller tank(FOWLR) than large tank since less competition or should I say easier to find/feed foods to Mandarins except in Reef Set Up..

Just beware of what lg pistom Shrimp can do to Glass!

[jaredseaman]

Thanks for the suggestions so far... its good to hear from others who have tried to do similar things.

Cerianthus, My tank is a Marineland instant ocean kit that measures 30in L x 12in W x 18in H. It has an all-inclusive hood with a standard FS light and a blue light totaling about 40 watts... I know I know. That made it impossible for me to upgrade my lights without wasting the prefixed setup. So thats why i decided to just try some soft corals and live rock until I inevitably upgrade (I just started and I already want more and BIGGER lol). The tank was a gift from my girlfriend so I didn’t wanna return it and make her feel bad… Im a nice guy. I have a pic, I’ll put it up soon.

So you dont think I should add inverts until after the fish? And do coral first? I have heard so many different ways to do it lol. I already bought a QT setup, 10 gallons, small heater, and sponge filter. I was questioning getting a QT until I started research… they are crucial.

I have been reading that in my size tank, people stock up to 40 hermits and 40 snails. That seems like way too many to me... whats the forums opinion?

If anyone else, thank you Cerianthus and Harpua, has experience with Mandarin's in a smaller tank, please leave any help you can. If I need to supplement its diet, how expensive can it get? I don't mind going above and beyond, but i do draw the line somewhere lol.

[cerianthus]

Sound like you have 29G tank. i used to use 1 x 20W 10K/20K daylight buls + 1 x 20W Act 03 by Coralife. Maybe there are better flo bulbs on the market now but I achieved good result with such lighting with most lps, softies, polyps and shrooms. just need to do some aquascaping with LR to create space to properly mount the corals. Little adjustments maybe needed when adding new corals. LPS were mostly placed toward top and facing front so can minimize stinging action of sweeping tentacles of lps to others.
Popys such as were positioned in back (little higher elevation than front) leaning against back glass or side glass so they can grow right onto glass.
Mushrooms were usually positined any nooks and crevices I can find and toward bottom.

Just beware that Snail & hermits can tip over corals. Secure the corals well when have such inverts. Still would wait for inverts and determine the numbres on as needed base.
I think that many would max out the tank. LOL!
Looking forward for pics. BTW, Protein skimmer?
Mandarinwise, couple of variety of Mysis shrimps and zooplanktons and along with other Prep Fz cube should do. Only problem is to make sure enough can reach Mandarin w/o polluting/fouling the tank. Not that expensive, IMO. Raising/sustaining live foods could be but unneccessary, imo.

[jaredseaman]

Cerianthus, you have some great advice!! That’s extremely encouraging to know how successful you were with corals in the same lighting setup.

BIG QUESTION: Is it normal for my tank to complete the initial cycle in less than a week? I was planning on a month-long cycle before I could get it all going, but I think my tests are telling me its ready!! I’m trying to not get too excited because I didn’t know a tank could cycle that quickly, so it seems too good to be true. But I do have a biowheel filter, I added about 35lbs of cured LR to my 29g tank right off the bat, and there were a lot of critters all over my LR that could have helped out the process.
My ammonia readings have been:
Day 3 – 0.6
Day 4 – 0.4
Day 5 – 0.0
Day 6 – 0.0

I made the mistake of not knowing I needed to take nitrite and nitrate levels immediately. I thought the ammonia would hang around a lot longer and I didn’t need to do it yet (I’m hitting myself now). On day 5 when I had a 0 ammonia reading, I checked them both.
Day 5
-Nitrite: 0, maybe a very very slight coloring. Not enough to read 0.1
-Nitrate: 0, same as Nitrite, not enough to give a reading of 10
Day 6 (both the exact same)

Even if everything is good, I want to get a few days of straight 0’s before I attempt anything. What do you guys think?

---I don’t currently have a protein skimmer, but I plan to get one soon. I don’t think I can do a hang over the top style because of my tank’s hood… does anyone know of a good skimmer I could use for my situation?

Thanks

[jaredseaman]

Oh, sorry I forgot to post my pH and alkalinity.

My ph has been pretty steady at 8.0 - 8.1

My alkalinity has been a little high, staying at 5.

[cerianthus]

Even though I am familiar with Eclipse, never used this system for S/W so never have tempted to modify to hang/accomodate Protein Skimmer (PS). i am sure ther is way to accomodate Hang-on Back (HOB) Skimmer. Maybe someone who actually have modified could share info/experiences. My thoughts on possible one is any Hang on Venturi or Counter Current (CC) PS. In either case. must have some sort of pump to drive PS.
Venturi one would require stonger pump than CC PS. Are you familiar with Venturi or CC PS?
When modified, HOB must to be free of Eclipse Top thus you should be able to lift the whole top without need to remove PS. If this task is impossible to achieve, there is an option of putting sump above the 29G and hang PS to sump. This would require bigger pump. I dont know if this is applicable for you, space wise and/or budget wise.
Other simple alternative is to loose the whole top and replace with Glass Canopy where you can mount 30" Double Bulbs Strip or T5 Lighting (Check Craigs List for Deal of Century for all other equipments such as PS, powerheads (PH). Who knows, you might get lucky!!)
I find PS to be one of the important piece of Equipment, if not the most, for successful Reef so I would like to recommend to find a way to accomodate one.

Check Alkalinity but dont do any to adjust. In a small tank, one can really cause more headaches by trying to correct the conditions to right (?) level. Let it be. When it goes low enough, we can deal with it at such time.

When well/properly cured LR are acquired locally, usually shoud not even see neither NH3 nor NO2 registering where I used to stock w/ corals/fish at the same time as LR.
If LR were shipped, you can go thru cycling procedure due to oganisms which may have died off during transit.
Your reading looks good. As long as no NH3/NO2 are shown, DO NOT wait too long to stock in order to keep the LR's bio-activities going. It could be corals and/or fish (not an angel yet but Bengai/Clowns).
Going back about 20 yrs, for any Reefer who did not have/could not afford MH, only other option was Flo Strips + special bulbs and achieved good results with most corals mentioned above.

Try starting with polyps/mushrooms first then into lps/softies. Actually, some soft corals as more difficult to handle than most lps. Dont assume softies are easy.

If not ready for PS or corals, should have some fish in the tank to keep the LR going.

As far as Additives, choose one brand you feel comfortable with. First dose should be full dose as per direction. After that, use common sense to determine the amt.
When one has fully loaded tank, i would follow as per direction (amt and time b/n dose) but when one has 2 or 3 corals, I dont see a reason to dose as much and as often as instructed.
Again, it can be determined by you according to amt of corals in the tank. Well, this is my theory/method as i have concluded from handling many many small reef. Dont have to follow but use it as reference if you will.

Looking forward for pics!

[Matt]

Cant wait to see the pictures

-Matt

[cerianthus]

Originally Posted by Matt

Cant wait to see the pictures

-Matt

Off topic. HBD Matt!!

[jaredseaman]

I'm gonna start stocking my tank tonight after work... I'm crazy excited!! I think I'll go with either 2 oc clowns, or 1 clown and 1 banggai. I'll probably add a small mix of snails, crabs and/or shrimp as well (as long as the bioload can be handled). My tank is only 29g so I will get very small clowns and/or banggai, and the load should be manageable. Any thoughts for my first wave of additons?

And trust me, pics are on the way. My only camera is my cell phone lol, but my gf is bringing hers over to take pics after we stock it.

Again, you guys are all awesome

[chaunte1]

I have setup my aquarium its a 30gallon tank. I have the protein skimmer and 2 filters (skilter250 for up to 125 gallons) and the Aqua-Tech for 20-40 gallons running. I am using a 200 watt heater and the reff sun 50/50 for lighting.

My level is at 1.022 when can I add the live rock to the tank.

Yes, this tank will have corals

Thanks a bunch