ATKINSON

Sorry for the hijack but would it be acceptable to keep live rock and a single percula or ocellaris clown fish in a 5gal or a pair in a 10gal if need be and would you need a protein skimmer for such a small tank?

sgould

Hey Atkinson...I went ahead and split your question into its own thread so as not to hijack the other.

The perc and ocellaris clowns are recommended for 20 gallon tanks minimum. I know it is not difficult to skim through various forums (including this one) and find folks that keep them in smaller set ups, but I am passing along what I have read from sources I trust as well as what I have done myself (I have a perc in a 29 gallon and a maroon in a 55). As to the skimmer question, unless you are going to be keeping sensitive inverts and/or corals, you could get away with not having a skimmer.

ATP

I agree with sgould. almost any fish is too small for a 5g.

ATKINSON

Thanks guys, If I had to get a 20gal with live rock and a clown fish( smaller variety) without a skimmer, what sort of pumps(power heads), lights I should get? Thanks all.

ATP

I usually use 2xkoralia 3 (forgot if I use 3 or 2) for small tanks. The lights depends on if you want coral or not. and if you want corals it depends on what type.

ATKINSON

Thanks ATP, I am thinking about a very simple tank. as its my first tank SW tank. Just plain live rock and a clown fish. Not sure about live sand?

ATP

FOWLR tank will do better with flourescents and actinic lights. Will there be any other fish in there?

I always give this advice to people who's tarting a new tank to be patient and make sure to not use tap water

ATKINSON

No other fish for now. What water should I use then, Salt water mix with tap water? Also, how do you cycle a sw tank, same as FW? Thanks.

ATP

Almost everyday, you add RO water (reverse osmosis) (it's like pure water) because saltwater evaporates fast. Once every few weeks or once a month, you mix RO water with salt and do water changes.

For the cycle, it will be a long process.
http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-cycling.html

locoyo386

Hi there, not to contradict anyone here but 2 Ocellaris Clownfish
(Amphiprion ocellaris) would have been fine in a 10 gallon tank. There are not as territorial and they do not really swim alot. The 20L is a better choice. All my tanks are as simple as I can make them for the fish that they are housing. If you got the 20L, you could add about 10lbs of sand. You will realise that clowns like to fanout sand so maybe 20 lbs would work better, unless you don't mind seeing the bottom glass exposed. A simple set up for that size tank would be the tank, the typical fluorescent lighting will be ok (unless you plan on keeping corals). For filtration I use Marineland power filters (250 for that size tank will be fine). You will not need a skimmer (if not keeping corals), and power heads are optional I prefer Hydor Koralia powerheads. For that size tnak you could use the nano or 1, that should be fine to keep water moving at the top of the sand to prevent cyano bacteria. Water can be bought at most saltwater fish store, as stated above use RO water. For salt water you can either mix it or buy it, I buyt mine as it is $1.00 per gallon where I buy my stuff. I do however know that by most part the mixing is cheaper it turns out to be around $0.60 cents per gallon.

As far as cycling the tank you can do it different ways. I use damsels, but everyone will tell you not to do it as it is cruel to the fish. Others use a raw shrimp to start the ammonia proccess. Other ghost feed the tank, and few actually introduce pure ammonia. The most commond way now a days is to use live rock, I do not use this method since you are going to be limited to the amount of fish you introduce initially (small bio-filter). In your case either way is fine, as you will only add two small fish.

ATP

They could put them in a 10 gallon, but it's best not to. (I'm not going to put the reasons because there's a bunch of them)

ATKINSON

Thanks, is RO water the same as bore hole water? Is it compulsory? So you are saying it is fine to cycle the tank with live rock? Wont it die? Sorry for all the questions, I dont want my sw tank tto be a failure.
Are there diferent types of live rock and is kenyan a good type ?thanks.

locoyo386

Well we all have our opinions about housing fish.

locoyo386

Hi there

ATKINSON

Thanks, how many kg of live rock should I use to cycle a 20gal tank?

locoyo386

HI there,

Between 5 and 7 should be O.K., most would recomend between 9 and 14. I have never cycled with with live rock, but I would recomend that you check the ammonia daily till you see it show up. That way you don't miss it if it turns out to be a small amount.

aquarist48

Hello Atkinson. Best of luck with your new salt set up. I hope you can share some photos along the way!
Ken

ATKINSON

Thanks locoyo. Aquarist48:Will try to get photos.

locoyo386

Your welcome, and if you have more questions just ask away.

ATKINSON

I have just bought the salt and salinity measurer. I added the salt, turned the power head on, turned the heater to 26 degrees celcius. I am busy dissolving the salt. After the salt is at the right salinity I will put the sand in. Then I will put a few kgs of live rock.( should I put the live rock in straight after the sand or should I wait a while?) After the live rock is in i will leave it to cycle for a few weeks with a flurecent light on 8 hours a day. Then I will add a hardy fish and wait until the tank is 100% cycled. Sounds alright?
I might add another power head if the current isnt strong enough, ok?

sgould

You can add the rock and sand at the same time...no need to wait. The live rock should cycle the tank 100%, so once you add it, wait until your ammonia and nitrite readings are consistently 0 to add your first fish. That could take a few weeks, but the exact timing is unique to each tank.

ATKINSON

Thanks, I just added live sand because the specific gravity is 1.022 so I thought it would be fine. Im only going to add live rock next weekend because a) I dont have enough cash atm and b) the pet shop is far away. I have some dead rock or "rubble". Should I add it now or should I wait until I get the live rock?

sgould

Depends...Where did the dead rock come from? What kind of rock is it?

ATKINSON

It came from the ocean a few years ago. It is anenome and coral skelotons as well as some shells. I have boiled every thing to make sure it is not deadly for my tank. This morning when I tested the SG it came out as 1.017. Is it because of the live sand, should I add more salt?

ATP

when my salinity is a little bit low and it's not due for water change, I always add a little bit of salt when I do water top off

ATKINSON

Thanks atp, is it safe to add live rock if it is too low. Also, how do you add live rock to the water? Acclimatising?

locoyo386

You don't have to wait, but since you are going to use the live rock to cycle I would wait till the cloud settles. Than place the live rock i the tank and test for ammonia almost daily since you are most likely going to see a small amout and you might miss it if you don't test daily.

Well once your ammonia and nitrites test zero, than you sould be able to put a hardy fish in. I wouls suggest you test about 2-3 days after placing the fish to see if you have ammonia or not. If you don't have ammonia than you are ok, if you read ammonia than you are going to have towait till the bacteria catch up to ammnoina level from the fish.

locoyo386

The SG is fine for now at 1.022, I have mine at 1.025 just because that is what they have it at from the store I buy it from. You could raise it to this when you add top-off water. Use saltwater instead of RO water to top-off the tank untill the SG reaches around 1.025.

Adding the rock till next week will be fine and that will give you time for the cloud to settle. You can add dead or base rock anytime since the rock will not have any living matter. Make sure you clean it really well to take off all matter, otherwise it will breakdown inside your tank into ammonia. This might cause a small rise in ammonia. Not likely but it might, just clean and rinse really well.

locoyo386

What are you using to test your salinity? Also what size tank did you go with? You might not want to add more salt directly into your tank. You could add higher concentration saltwater. I will check what amount you need to add and at what level it needs to be to bring it to 1.025 once I know what size tank you went with.

locoyo386

That salt level is not low enough to kill everything too fast. You will need to raise it to around 1.025, but the sand and rock should be fine for now. The rock can be rinsed in salt water than placed in the tank. If you can raise the salinity before you place the rock will be better for it in the long run. If the rock is indeed live, than you should be fine adding it to the tank without any acclamation. There is a curing proccess that the rock goes thru but since you don't have any fish, that can take place while in the tank at this moment. That is part of what cycles the tank aswell.