MissMTS

Hi Everyone,

For those of you who don't know me, I have been keeping freshwater fish for almost a year now and I am really enjoying every aspect of it. I currently have 10 freshwater tanks with everything from bettas, to African Cichlids and Discus. I have decided that I want to start saving up for a saltwater setup, so I have lots of questions

I know that with saltwater, bigger is better as far as tanks go, but I am looking to convert one of my current tanks to saltwater. My tank is 29 gallons. I know that this is not a lot of space to work with, but I don't have the room for another large tank at this point. I am looking at doing a FOWLR tank. I would like to do a full blown reef tank, but it is a little to expensive for me at this point. Here is what I currently have (at least I think this stuff is still usable for a saltwater tank):

29 Gallon All Glass Aquarium
Aquaclear 70 Powerfilter
24 inch T9 Light Strip (30 watts)
Marine Bio-Spira (was sent to me by mistake a long time ago, but I was smart and have kept it in the refrigerator just in case)

I am planning on purchasing the following:

Protein Skimmer
RO Unit (possibly, but I'm not sure yet).
Crushed Coral Substrate
Live Rock (about 25 lbs to start out with)
Saltwater Heater
Hydrometer
Saltwater API Test Kit
Salt Mix
Possibly an additional light
2-3 Powerheads

If anyone can think of anything else I need, or better yet, anything on the list I can do without please let me know.

I have a few questions and I am hoping that someone can answer them for me Sorry for the long post....

1. Are there any corals that I would be able to keep with this setup that don't require the expensive lighting units?

2. What are the general stocking rules for a saltwater tank? I know that you can't just go by inches per gallon, but I at least want to get an idea.

3. How do inverts count towards the bio-load?

4. What types of fish can I put together? I have a list of what I like, but I am not sure how well some of the semi-aggressive and peaceful species can be mixed.

5. I really want a starfish or a brittlestar in my tank. Can I keep one of those is a FOWLR tank or do they need a reef setup?

6. What kinds of inverts are best for small tanks?

I am sorry for all of the questions, but I have done a lot of reading and cannot seem to find all of the answers I am looking for. Thanks in advance for all of the help and for taking the time to read my post.

Slug

I started small, worked out for me so far. Best thing to do is take your time. Do it right, do it once. I'd suggest a substrate other then crushed coral, something a little finer. Not only do i prefer it but IMO crushed coral tends to trap nasties to much. Everything else looks good though.

1. Possibly. You might be able to get away with some Green Star Polyps or Zoanthids in there.

2. A number of factors go into it. I basically like to pick a fish and then see if it will work. Maximum size, aggression level, reef compatibility, etc. I'm not sure there is a general guideline like 2 discus per 10gals.

3. Minimal. They actually help towards it. Being the "Clean up Crew (CUC)". They help keep wastes/algae to a minimum and make your job a little easier....usually.

4. Hard to say, you'd probably be better off posting your list and go from there. Some fish eat shrimps, some don't, some hate other fish some don't. Theres really no good strict guideline out there to my knowledge.

5. As long as you have some LR and substrate i don't see why they wouldn't work.

6. Most of the cleaner shrimps will work for you, skunk cleaner, fire red, coral banded. But i'd probably only do 2-3 in that size tank. Hermits and snails you will be able to put a good bit in, small creatures and don't add much to the bioload. You don't want to really overload on shrimp and larger crabs because they can become territorial.

MissMTS

Hi Matt,
Thanks for the response

Do you have another substrate that you can recomend instead of the crushed coral? I just assumed that crushed coral was standard and I didn't realize that had other options.

I will definetly look into Green Star Polyps and Zoanthids. It would be nice to have a few corals in there to start out with.

Thanks for the reccomendations on the inverts. I was thinking of doing the following:
3 Fire Red Shrimp
1 Nerite Snail
2 Bumble Bee Snails
1 Super Tongan Nassarius Snail
2 Hermit Crabs
1 Marble Sea Star
Do you think this is to much?

I will post my ideas for fish later today. I just have to do a bit more research first

Thanks for all of your help!

FishFolk

Sounds like a good plan.

Personally I would give Arag-Alive sand. Since it helps the cycle and I like the look of sand. it comes in black, white, and pink. All different grain sizes as well.\

Lights aren't to expensive to upgrade 100-200 dollars generally. With upgraded lights you can get a wider variety of corals including stonies (SPS-Small Polyped Stonie and LPS-Large Polyped Stonie) and more softies. But light upgrade is up to you.

I would get more snails. Ceriths, Astraea, and Nerite. About 4-5 of each. Don't know anything about Marble sea stars so I cant help you there. Everything else sounds good.

Have you considered all in ones? They are a good tank for a beginner. Things like Oceanic Biocube, Aquapod, CAD Lights, Finnex, etc?

I am planning on getting the 29 gallon biocube and upgrading lights to a MH 150W so I can keep almost all corals/clams. There are many upgrades and mods available. My total setup that I am looking at is gonna cost around 650 dollars.

Hope that helps!

EDIT: Gosh i hate when I do this. This is Cory/Coryd55. I am on my mom's laptop and her name is signed in. I always forget when I post.

Slug

I'd actually put more snails in. They seem to do a better job cleaning then hermits. And hermits knock stuff over constantly lol. As far as types of snails, Cerith, Nerite, Turbos, Astraea, and Trochus all do well for algae. The Nass snails actually don't eat algae. I wouldn't put tons more snails in, because then you'll have nothing for them to eat, just a couple more to control the algae. You'll have to just pay attention to the shrimp, sometimes 3 is to much, sometimes it works fine.

I prefer something like Caribsea Fiji Pink Reef Sand. Something along the fine aragonite line. Crushed coral is usually 3-5mm grain size, and a lot of the aragonite substraites (especially by Caribsea) are like .5-1mm in size. I just prefer a smaller substrate. I'm dying to try their Super Natural Marine Sand (.1-.3mm). I'd just look for something in between crushed coral and straight sand. Heavy enough not to blow around like sand, but not big enough to catch debris easily.

lol.

MissMTS

Thanks for the help Matt and Cory

Here is my revised list of inverts:
• 3 Fire Red Shrimp
• 3 Nerite Snails
• 3 Bumble Bee Snails
• 3 Super Tongan Nassarius Snails
• 1 Marble Sea Star
• Zoanthids
• Green Star Polyps
• 1 Hermit Crab

I may do an upgrade on the light. I know it is not to expensive, but I will just have to see how it fits into my budget.

As for the substrate, I really like the look of:
Caribsea Fiji Pink Aragalive Sand

Let me know if you think that this is better

Thanks again for the help!

Oil_Fan

Another thing just add to this...the lighting can always be upgraded later. That's what I did when started adding coral after having the tank up and running for 5 months.

[edit] Oh and welcome to the wonderful world of SW!!!!

MissMTS

Thanks! That's kind of what I was thinking. I can get the tank up and running with minimal lighting and add more later on Its good to know that you did the same thing. Its wierd starting saltwater. I felt like I knew so much with all of my freshwater tanks, but saltwater is like another language to me! I am excited to learn as much as I can about all of this stuff.

MissMTS

Okay guys bear with me.......

Here some stocking lists that I was just playing around with. They could be completely garbage, but if you could at least maybe revise them and let me know what you do think would work, I would really appreciate it.

Option 1 (Peaceful Tank):
1 Benggai Cardinalfish 3 inches
2 Ocellaris Clownfish 7 inches
1 Royal Gramma 3 inches
1 Yellowtail Damsel 2.5 inches

Option 2 (Peaceful Tank):
1 Filamented Flasher Wrasse 4 inches
1 Yellow Clown Goby 1.5 inches
1 Purple Firefish 3.5 inches
1 Scissortail Dartfish 5.5 inches

Option 3 (Aggressive Tank):
1 Cherub Angelfish 3 inches
1 Maroon Clownfish 6.5 inches
1 Blue Devil 3 inches
1 Diadem Dottyback 2.4 inches

Option 4 (Aggressive Tank):
1 Whitetail Pygmy Angelfish 3 inches
1 Goldbelly Damsel 3 inches
1 Longfinned Fairy Wrasse 3 inches
1 Humbug Dascyllus 3 inches
1 Redbar Anthias 4 inches

I don't have any experience with any of the above fish, so if you have any personal favorites, or can let me know which ones you think are the most interesting and worth keeping I would appreciate it. I would really like to hear people's oppinions.
Thanks!

Slug

Just to throw a few more out there, sixline and fourline wrasse. I LOVE my fourline, most interesting and cool fish i've owned. Very smart and always on the move. My Royal Gramma is nice, but is quite shy. One thing you need to be aware of is the shrimp + wrasse. Make sure you get the shrimp larger then the wrasse if you choose to get one.

If i were you i'd look at a setup #1 or 2. But leave out the damsel, **** with scales and it will save you headaches later. #1 is a good classic setup, good mix of fish and probably the route i would go if i was doing it.

MissMTS

There are shrimp that grow larger than wrasse

Thanks for the feedback.

How would it work if I replaced the damsel with the 6 line wrasse or filamented flasher wrasse?

Also, do the clownfish need to be in pairs? I am not really interested in trying to breed them at this point. If they don't I might want to take out one of the clownfish and add a purple firefish. Just a thought...

Also, I have read that with saltwater tanks, you should stock it half way full at the beginning, and then add the rest of the fish after the 1st six months. However, if I use bio-spira and cylcle the tank, and then add fish that are juveniles, I can add all of my fish at once right? They will grow to reach their full size over the next year or so, and then the tank will be stocked at capacity. I'm just making sure that I have the right idea.

Slug

Just when introduced to the tank. If they are larger then the wrasse the wrasse learns that shrimp is not a food source.

Clownfish don't need to be in pairs no. The purple firefish in place of the clown would be fine. I might be inclined to do something like this:

1 Clown
1 Firefish
1 Sixline Wrasse (No experience with the other type of wrasse)
And then all your inverts and stuff.

galvatron3000

Congrats, I wish you the best at this. I just recently delved into the saltwater hobby. I just got my live Rock today. Best wishes in regards to this endeavor. I'm pulling for ya!!

Oil_Fan

Again I'll add...heh

From what I've read, clowns do not need to be in pairs. I would agree with Slug on this. The pair of ocellaris that I have really do seem to enjoy each other. My guess is that they are just happier if they are paired. And just because they are paired doesn't mean they'll start producing frys. Both mine and Martinsmommy's haven't produced any. And she's had hers for a few years from what I've read here on the forums.

Though the first month of watching them fight over who is the dominate one is pretty rough. The bigger one (which will end up being the female) is pretty mean dominating the soon to be male.

The royal gramma that I have was pretty active until I finished stocking my tank. That included adding a flame angel and a yellow tang. Both are considered semi-aggressive. Ever since then, he kinda keeps to his corner of the tank. But he is a very beautiful fish. I'm very glad I got mine.

And the way to add fish to a SW tank, is start with the most peaceful fish first. Then you move onto the more aggressive ones. And you do it a few weeks in between adding each fish. Part of it is to allow for the bio filter to adjust to the extra load. I don't know if this way the it's done in the FW world or not.

BTW, this is my first tank. I really know nothing about FW. I'm lucky I know what a betta is. I have no idea if those FW sharks that I see in Petco can be kept with a gold fish!! I'm guessing no....lol

MissMTS

Thanks so much for all of the info guys! It will be a little while before I get my tank set up because I have to save up the money first, but I will probably have more questions once I start putting everything together

MissMTS

Thanks for the imput! I feel the same way about saltwater as you do about freshwater I was looking through books at all of the saltwater fish profiles, and I kept looking at some of the fish thinking "how can they be highly aggressive? They are so small and cute!". Shows how much I know, lol. By the way to answer your last question, no they cannot be kept together

Thanks so much. I feel like I am going to need all of the luck that I can get. Good luck with your tank. Hopefully we can both master this crazy complicated hobby!

Thanks for the imput Matt I feel like 3 mall fish in a 29 gallon tank is nothing, but then again, I am used to tanks like my African Cichlid tank that is overstocked to help with aggression levels, lol.

agsansoo

I like option 1 with one exception. Leave out the Yellowtail Damsel. Also use fine grain sand, no crushed coral (it's so 80's) LOL. Read my post on going barebottom. Oh yeah ... Good luck !

MissMTS

Too bad damsels are so mean and so freaking cute at the same time!!! They were the main type of fish that caught my eye when I was looking through saltwater books, but I was so bummed when I realized what meanies they are. Yeah, I think I will go with the pink fiji reef sand instead of the crushed coral. I just thought that crushed coral was standard in saltwater tanks, I didn't particularly like the look of it though. Thanks for all of the advice