cichlidlover

I was wanting a small UV Sterilizer for my 55 gal fish only tank.something under $150.I was looking at the ones on petsolutions(petsolutions.com) You can go there to look at them. I was thinking the gamma 8 watt might be nice, but I do not really know. I'm open for any suggestions.

lew2000

i currently use gamma uv's on my tanks - and they work well. I read articles, forum links, etc. and decided upon gammas (2 years ago) because of the construction of the units and their reputation. I know that other units are now on the market that use spiral water flow as well to increase the dwell time of the water in the unit. while the 8w specs say 50gal tank max with 200gph, imo you can probably get by with 8w 100gph. The issue comes down to; what can you afford, how often do you want the 50gal of your tank water to go throught the unit and pushing the unit to the end of the spec, and the glass enclosure over the uv bulb becoming less clear with gunk. Personally, when i get gear, i always oversize, and set-up so i don't exceed 50% capacity of a filter, uv, etc. This way, i feel comfortable that the device is functioning as it should. Having said that, i went with 24w units, but i actaully run them below minimum recomended GPH. If you can afford to get the 16w, then you will have more latitude on the size of your pumps/filter to connect to the unit (and the gph). I also know their are uv's on the market with wipers (very expensive), but i clean my uv's every 6mos without problem so far.

Sorry for the long answer - hope this helps.

travie

Why do you need one? Sorry to answer your question with a question. UV sterilizers really don't need to be run 24/7. Just good to have on hand when there is disease/parasite outbreak that has a free floating stage or to battle green water. UV sterilizers also kill the good stuff that floats through them also.

I'm partial to the Coralife Turbo Twist UV Sterilizers.

lew2000

travie makes a good point. If you add bacteria to aid or restart your nitrogen cycle you would obviously turn the unit off. If you use probiotic bacteria then you also will want the unit off. Since my filters are working properely and doing the majority of the nitrogen cycle along with some substrate, i don't worry about any shed (benificial) bacteria being destroyed. I use uv so i don't have to deal with the start of any algae/diatoms or pathogens - (Some debate as to wether UV A has any effect on virus's)( Aquarium UV is type A) - rather than waiting for symptoms to appear. I am certainly not saying that my way is the way to go - some people have no problems and don't use uv, some use it periodicaly when they have some type of issue that UV can solve or prevent form becomming a problem, some only have it on for a period a day, etc. I use mine because it brings me piece of mind, and so far wether it is the UV or luck, i haven't had a fish disease spread or algae problems - along with a phosphate reactor.

cichlidlover

I just wanted to lower the risk of disease and to kill algae. It was mainly because I wanted a flame angel. i heard from several people that they are prone to ick. I don't want to kill my fish.


do i have to buy a pump separately? If so, which pump do I need? if a pump is to expensive ( if I need one)I can't afford the 15 watt

cerianthus

Flame or any dwarf angels are not as bad as Tangs, Since you only have FO, why not use it?
Once UV is running, would not sut it down. Think about it. By the time you may notice something is wrong, it is too late to treat whats on/in the fish. It may take care of free swimming stage parasites after the possible casulties. If have on FO tank, i would run it continuously as prophylactic purpose.
Only time I would consider shutting down UV is when your tank is fully stocked, runnning for while without any mishaps since most common disease of S/W seems to be Crypt & Amylood which are obligate parasire(they die in certain time frame w/o host
) and have no intention of adding new livestocks.
Remember, UV is not 100% since only effective as pathogens are exposed to UV rays. But it is beeter than not having one for FO tank, IMO..

Salvatore

I agree withCerianthus. I run one all the time! Pro-active not Re-active!

travie

cerianthus: What are your thoughts on running a UV on a reef tank?

lew2000

Chiclidlover - your 70gal power filter - i assume that is an aqauclear? If so you can go with a powerhead (like a rio about 20-30.00)placed in you tank and hang the uv on back and then route the return into your tank. Unfortunately this puts the cord and the tubing to the unit in your tank - unless you can hide it. To get an external pump, like a little giant is at least 100.00? - you don't want to buy a cheap pump, you can end up regretting it - then you only have to deal with an intake tube. However, this puts you over the 150.00. I know people who use powerheads in saltwater - you just have to clean frequently to prevent buildup in impeller area. You want to have at least 90-100gph - but i wouldn't go more than that for an 8w UV.

cichlidlover

actually, I'ts not a aquaclear. it's a whisper EX 70. I wouldn't mind an internal pump. il'l just hide it. would the Maxi jet pump work?

lew2000

For easiest setup i would go with this type of pump: not recomending the site or mfgr, but this link shows what i would use for type of pump - a pump that puts out approx. 100gph. BY the time you put the tubing and the uv unit in place you are probably going to be approx. 10-15% less than the rating on the pump for overall flow through the uv. Frind of mine when he placed in his aqaurium, put it on a small base rock just above the substrate so the vents were un-obstructed - then regularly cleans (weekly) the vents, and the impeller area about once a month since the vents don't have any mechanical filtration. If you go with what i call a powerhead like a maxi-jet 400 - then you could connect the output of the powerhead fully submerged (no venturi/air) - and have some basic particulate filtration. IMHO, i would have whatever configuration you go with - you want the input/siphon as low in the tank as possible, the output as far away as possible and on the top of the water colum so you get the best water flow through the tank as possible.

http://www.marineandreef.com/Rio_90_...p/rti00255.htm

cichlidlover

that was sure helpful. I am getting it right after spring break (april)so I have plenty of time to decide.


Just another question: how often do I have to replace the bulbs?

lew2000

i run my uv 24/7, so i change my bulb approx every 6mos. Some mfgrs and web sites state you can go longer, and you will read other opinions - so i am just speaking as to what i do. Just like with other specialized bulbs, you will see output of light even as the bulb ages of course, however, the effectiveness of the bulb is compromised much earlier than the dimming or buring out of the bulb - obviously. I think 8w bulbs are around 20.00? So i would recomend imo change every 6mos and clean the glass tube at the same time.

cerianthus

Would not run it. Need microorganism to sustain healthy reef (even though cant see them but we know they are in the tank), not just for coral but all the inhabitants (food chain), IMHO.
You will also see lot more new growth of sponges, corals, macros, etc w/o UV since UV will destroy all the eggs/larvae as they pass thru it. Had many inverts spawns in the tank when the timing and the conditions were right, usually Full Moon. When such massive spawning takes place, water will go hazy/cloudy due to all the spawning activities. Have met enough hobbyist who have done massive water changes thus removing all the possible free inverts. I always said not to jump the GUN. If water goes hazy for no apparent reasons, check outside for full moon before performing water changes. If decided to do water changes , save that water in separate container with airstone and may be heater if in cold region/climate with few live rock for them to attach just in case.

It is always risky to add livestock (Inverts/fish) directly to tank thus q/t practice will lessen the risk. Besides we can have many groomers (shrimps but no wrasse; learned that they dont last as long as other fish no matter how hard I tried so no more. Also, they sometimes cause problem with healthy fish in small tank when compared to ocean) to control paraites as in nature.

cerianthus

Should follow mfgr recommended gph. I am sure you can find pH that will match the tubing size and GPH w/o difficulties (Maxi-jet or Aqua Clear; one that I mostly used to drive HOB UV or Protein Skimmers).

cichlidlover

the max GPH is 600 on the 8 watt gamma. I might get the maxi jet 400 or the rio that lew2000 showed me. also on petsolutions you can buy a pipe kit with 1/2 inch thubing.


You guys sure are a great help.

cerianthus

Wow! 600 gph on 8 W UV is a lot from old school. Maybe what they meant was that max flow rate is for algae control. For parasite, should have stated less gph (200-300GPH)?
Personally, not an fan of Rio pump although their quality may have improved in 20 yrs but i prefer Aqua Clear PH by Hagen which can be hung on tank rim on the opposite side of UV (as far away from each other) unless wants it on the bottom. If you have good circulation in the tank, may clip on the rim. If dont have great circulation, should position the PH/pump on the bottom.
BTW, how are fish doing and water parameters?

lew2000

Personaly chiclidlover, as i was saying in an earlier post and cerianthus was saying, even though gamma uv's give a max rating i don't think running at 600gph is a good idea. When you review this spec on any UV (µw sec/cm2): if you have 22000 (µw sec/cm2 or better than, then according to studies this is minimum to begin killing certain bacteria and other single cell animals (re: algaes). However for effectiveness of tretament - what you find are studies based upon treatment facilites that rate based upon GPM, length of medium (uv tubes/uv sleeve (quartz) and enclosure) that water column recieves exposure, wattage of lamps, clarity of water, etc. Essentially in my opinion, when i sorted through all of this data and claculations, once you identify the (µw sec/cm2 minimum required, you then get into wattage/length of tube/volume of water being treated(not throughput itself but the amount of UVC required to penetrate the water within), clarity of the water, degredation of the uv lamp over time, the discoloration of the quartz sleeve over time, and what day of the week it is it can drive you crazy trying to come up with a good gph through a unit. So again, i personally go with the max i could afford as well as size and placement of the unit (24w) and i run only 100gph through mine. I am not so concerned with flow through the unit as i am with exposure of the water moving through the unit. 8w of uv radiance is not alot (scientific term) as far as penitration of the water and the length of the uv tube (clarity of the water/clarity of uv sleeve). I wrote gamma about these ratios but never heard back. Given all of the parameters involved slow gph would be better than higher gph (that is why i recomended a rio type not rio itself). I am no expert obviously, but IMHO, less watts/less tube length would mean that i would drasticaly reduce the gph based upon the max of the gamma as stated. Sorry about the long answer. Obviuosly preference comes down to opinion derived from reading and experience - but doesn't mean i am right.

cichlidlover

I can't affored to anyway. I found a rio plus pump that runs 200 GPH. $25!!!!! I made a mistake. the Inlet/ outlet on the sterilizer is 3/4 inch not 1/2 so I could get that rio!

The fish are doing fine my purple anthias are not nearly as shy. PH=8.2 specific gravithy = .023, ammonia=0 nitrie=0 nitrate=20. I currently have: 1 peppermint shrimp, 2 pajama cardinals,1 clownfish, 1 six line wrasse, 2 purple anthias, 1 royal gramma, and 2 red firefish

cerianthus

lew, have a question about Gamma products. I am not familiar with Gamma UV. Products which I am used to usually have recommended flow rate for specific pathogen. For example, 500gph for algae, 300gph for bacteria, and 200gph for parasites. Didnt Gamma have such recommended flow rates specified in their instruction?

cerianthus

You should be able to find plastic/PVC/rubber hose adaptor (one end 3/4" and the other end 1/2") at Garden Centers or HD, plumbing supplier.

BTW, what kind of clown? Couldnt get 2 different size clowns at the same time? Any plan to give him/her a mate and/or home (anemone)?

cichlidlover

false percula and yes i am going to get it a mate as soon as I find out wether its a him or her. I don't know abount an anemone, it depends on how difficult they are to keep.


on the gamma, they just have 600 GPH written. nothing else

cerianthus

Clowns are born as male and most dominant/larger will become female. If and when female is absent/dies, next male on line will become female. You can buy slightly smaller ocellaris. You gotta look into what types of anemones ocellaris will prefer such as carpet (very dangerous to other animal and to your skin), ritteri, bubblip tip, etc.

I've just check their Web (Current USA) and same. Why dont you e-mail to request for recommended gph for parasitic control for Gamma 8W. Am sure they will reply soon to get your business. Let them know of your intention that you will deciding soon depending on qualityof customer service and availability of parts. This will get their attention, IMO.

cichlidlover

cool i didn't know they did that.

I'll email right now

cichlidlover

i can't email them. the computer won't let me for some reason but I found out that 600 GPH was max GPH not recommended GPH so I'm thinking 200-300 will do the job

lew2000

Cerianthus - on UV sterilizers what i have read - not at the mfgr's web sites but from water quality and treatment sites was 22000 μW·s/cm 2 was the minimum dose for algae and pathogens. Then of course you get into how far the uv source is from water colum and the quartz sleve, the length of the uv source (bulb) and then the flow of the water. The gammas i haver purchased state a mx flow rate - then looking at other manufacturers they specify flow rate min/max and sometimes the amount of μW·s/cm 2 and the water flow rate to get that rating. Then you go on to the reef sites - and read what others have to say - and frankly at for me i had to look at the μW·s/cm 2 rating and then the wattage of the bulb (which usually means a shorter length) and then try and come with a flow that makes sense. Just like you were talking to chiclidlover that 600gph seem to large as well - seems like you have to make an educated guess - that is what i tried to impart to chiclid lover that it is only my opinion and not mfgr recomend or fact obviusly.

this link for an emporer uv has μW·s/cm 2 and emporers flow rate to get 30000μW·s/cm 2 at 472gph with 25w uv source:

http://www.emperoraquatics-pond.com/...echart_big.jpg

cerianthus

Thanx for the link, lew. It wouldve been easier/more effective if Gamma specified their recomm flow rate (actual results of their experiments on pathogens) rather than have indivisual to research and calculate as was specified by Custom Sealife, Aquanetics, etc.

cichlidlover

ya, it would have been much easier. It won't exactlly help them sell more either.lol

lew2000

Cerianthus - yes i agree but then alot of the information provided by mfgr's of alot of products, almost everyting, it seems to me is either considered proprietary or even if shown/listed is not fully explained - which as i understand from a thread in a reefkeeping site a number of years ago - to paraphrase; a mfgr said that most users do not seek to understand how products work, they just want assurance that they do. However, most reefkeepers or even SW aquariums, given that there are significanlty more issues with maintaining water quailty and animal health, when you read the threads want more than just mfgr's assurances - they want the research/science or logic on the operating aspects of thier products. As i am sure you know - UV on the market is a large area of discussion on use and what parameters do you look for. Even the emporer site on the aspect of UV - they are going with 25w - well i got 25w on my gama's becuase the lack of information, and the more is better approach. BUt given from what i have read on this subject - i am unsure as to wether 8w or 16w even work unless you run about 50gph throufgh the unit. I actually only run 50gph through mine since i have them connected to phophate reactors and thats the limit they set on those - at least from researching these. So all of my information i make sure that people understand where i get my information from and that it is only an educated guess on my part. I routinely write mfgr's on product specs and testing, etc., - and i get a polite letter most of the time referencing me back to their web site - which of course i said it does not provide the amount of information i seek. As to what chiclidlover said about limited information not exactly helping sales - i would have to disagree - it comes down to imo, what is on other threads, reputation in general, and if they are selling, mfgr's have no inclination to change their approach. Look at the discussion regarding bacteria, FW nitrosomas or nitrospira, FW vs saltwater bacteria: Nitrosococcus and Nitrococcus how much and is this true?, the issue with biro-spira becomming TSS, its a jungle out there

cerianthus

Yup, it is. It is jungle out thee. LOL!
I, myself read an article about nirospira over nitrobacter. To me, i'd have them fight over which. As long as the knowledge we have so far can keep the tank going and have done for many decades, nomenclature is not important to me, IMHO.
As far as recommendation by mfgr, I still say they should post thier experiment results thus informing consumers. Consumers then can decided the direction they want/desire.
If I was marketing director, would let consumer know how much testings are performed to derive the quality product the Co. has produced. I dont think hobbyist should be doing all the calculation on the products to maximize its effectiveness unless disired.