bhcaaron

Are these meant to replace other multiple fileter or are they in addition to? How reliable are they? Are they preffered or disliked? They don't include a skimmer do they? If I had one of these, would I not need a sump? (Although I would probably still get one to put the skimmer in, but, does the cannister do away with the need for a sump when it is only wanted to hide all those filters and heaters and pumps?) Have you used any? Which brands? Was it better than having all the separate ones (if its meant to replace them)? Would separates items be more recommendable? Why or why not?

As many answers and opinions from as many persons would be GREATLY appreciated, even if you haven't used them but know anything about them. Since my other questions don't receive many replies, I keep wondering if I'm posting stupid questions.

Examples of what I'm reffering to:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...All&Nty=1&pc=1

http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...earch&keepsr=1

sgould

Canisters would generally be considered an upgrade from a HOB filter. They allow you more flexibility with filter media, and they reduce if not outright eliminate water bypassing the filter media, which can be an issue with HOB models. They do not include a skimmer. You can run a canister with or without a sump. If your ONLY reason for running a sump is to hide your filtration equipment, then I suppose having the canister would eliminate the need. But remember there are other benefits to having a sump behind hiding equipment. Eheim seems to be a pretty well respected brand. For the more budget minded, I have also read good things about Filstars.

bhcaaron

Thank you so much. I don't have much money at the moment, however, that is not an issue. I will get the best I can. The only thing that changes is timeline. The more expenses I pour into this project, the longer I'll have to wait to have it all up and running since I'll have to wait longer to save up for it.

You mentioned there are other reasons for having a sump. I'm still learning so bare with me. Quarantine tanks are for newbies and sickies. Sumps are for added water and Refugiums are for food breeding, such as algae and shrimp. Did I get that about right?

bhcaaron

As I've been learning, a sump, in my case, would really just be for the skimmer, wouldn't it? If I plan on having a refugium, wouldn't it just be easier to place it in there?

bhcaaron

AAAAAAHHHHRGHHH!

I just read that a cannister filter cannot be used for a reef!? IS THIS TRUE!?!?!?

agsansoo

I wouldn't say can't ... Just a general rule with regular filter media ( sponge. floss, carbon) they become nitrate factories. They would have to be cleaned bi-weekly. They are like UG (under gravel), HOB filters. Not very common in reef tanks. Did the article say why ?

bhcaaron

Yeah, because they "become nitrate factories" lol, no kidding. I don't think it used the word factory though. The main point it made was that the water took so relatively long to pass through it that anaerobic areas were created toward the end creating higher levels of nitrates and poorly oxygenated water. This is not a bad thing in itself, only for reefs. However, since the book is about ten years old, I wondered if it was still the same now. I'm now looking into the Berlin and Monaco methods.

agsansoo

That's funny ... LFS's try to get rid of the things to newbies ! Crushed coral, wet/dry and canister filters. Let the buyer beware !
I will post on Berlin and Monaco methods tomorrow .... I'm sleepy. ZZZZzzzzzz ! LOL

bhcaaron

Thanks, its bedtime for me too. Gnite

bhcaaron

BTW Try to post it on my thread about them, thanks.

Gozer_1

I use 2 Filstar XP2s on my reef. One is all bio media the other is for chemical and mechanical. I do clean them once a week though, to avoid the "nitrate factory" thing and I do plan to replace the mechanical\chemical with more biomedia once I get my sump\fuge going. I only use carbon once in awhile and Purigen all the time. Those I can plop in and out of the sump as needed. The mechanical has become a waste of time. As for anaerobic areas toward the end, that's not going to cause high nitrates. No way no how. Anaerobic bacteria consume nitrates. If anything you want a nice anaerobic section. As you know from our other conversations, you need both aerobic and anaerobic just not stagnant. If you have a large aerobic section and a small anaerobic section then you may see some nitrates because there isn't enough anaerobics to keep up with the aerobics waste. I have considered the idea of chaining the two filters together so one would get Oxygen rich water, use it up, and send anaerobic water through the second for the anaerobics to thrive. As for poorly oxygenated water. My skimmer puts a ton of O2 into the water, so I figure the loss is supplemented well enough. You just have to get good all around flow to keep things moving.

sgould

I'm using an XP2 also. My nitrates have been declining since I started using it after reading some of Gozer's earlier posts.

pistorta

I am using a Fluval FX5 on a 120 gallon. A bit overkill, but I prefer it this way. The filter is nice in that it has a drain built into the bottom. I utilize this for water changes. It also has massive filter media baskets (3). Sponges surround these baskets all the way around the perimeter from the bottom to the top of the canister which allows for great biological and mechanical filtration. Under pressure, it pumps ~550 GPH. Under 0 pressure, it is near 1000 GPH. Another benefit is that it only uses 50 watts of power. I don't intend on cleaning it for 6 months based on my experience with other smaller canister filters. I currently use the FilStar Bio-Chem Stars for biological filtration within the canister along with a chemical media. On larger tanks I would recommend a canister, primarily due to their media capacity or water volume filtration ability. If you want to know more, let me know.

agsansoo

pistorta,
Is this on a saltwater tank ? If so what are your water parameters ?

agsansoo

Canister are excellent mechanical filters as wet/dry are excellent biological filters. Just these filters have fallen out of favor in the past few years in saltwater reef tanks. Due to their excellent ability to manufacturer nitrates. This is primarily from poor filter maintenance.

bhcaaron

Then perhaps its just because the book I'm reading has somewhat outdated material. This probably means that the things we have now have greatly improved in just a few years. Good to know.

Gozer_1

You definitely have to keep them fairly clean. They account for about 1 third of my weekly water change so once a week the media gets a rinse in tank water and a sink hosing for the canister its self and the foam filter. As soon as I can get more I'm going to replace the foam with more Matrix and Dernitrate. I'm just a big fan of biomedia. I used the Filstar BioStars for awhile but was never very impressed. I have a bunch I plan to incorporate into my sump\fuge though. The intake of a canister is nice for getting some current deeper in the tank too. I have mine set so they kind of draw water through the live rock. Moving water through the rock is going to help the rock clean your water too. Moving them around to clean them can become a small chore especially as they get bigger. All mine have to be unhooked and hauled to the kitchen. An XP2 is no problem but the XP4 on my 150 is a bit of a haul. So canisters do have a "darkside". They are certainly no fun to haul around and when restarted mine like to blow bubbles. In the end I like them for their large baskets for my "bio rocks" and steady flow to keep it all moving. I'm interested to see what happens after I get the sump setup. I'm kind of predicting removing one of the XP2s in the future.

bhcaaron

There is SO much out there. Who knew!? Now I'm starting to stress. What if I make a mistake and what I choose ends up killing my fishies!?!?!? Ugh! Hyperventilating now! lol