bhcaaron

So this guy shows up yesterday saying he was sent to test water samples because of concerns with the water. As soon as he said that, I began my military style questioning that made him sweat! lol 1st thing I asked was "is this about RO systems"? After a double-take he said yes. After a few more questions it came to figure that he got the info on-line from when I was questioning companies about the systems. He's coming from Vegas... so I made him come back today! lol He'll be here around 11am. I figure I'll get what ever info I can get out of him while he's here. Besides, he's doing a free water test... hehe... couldn't say no to that! I'll be ahead in a way lol

What type of info should I find out from him? I already have a list of things I want to know, but, maybe you can come up with something I've forgotten or don't know. Anything you want me to ask him? He should be here in a half hour or so.

atmmachine816

hmm um so how did this come about again?

bhcaaron

Just did. Figured if anyone had questions about price, product or anything, I'd convey it and more than one of us would benefit. It was rescheduled for next Friday, so, if anyone has questions for an RO salesman, there's still time.

Butterfly

I'm sure you know this already
RO water is made by forcing feed water(tap water) through a semi-permeable membrane thus seperating salts, minerals, chlorine and other "pollutants" out of the water.
Ask him about Delta pressures Delta pressure is the difference between the incoming water pressure and the out going water pressure. The PSI(pounds per square inch) has to stay between certain numbers or the membrane can be damaged. I think it would also dictate how much RO water is produced from a particular RO unit. My understanding is they don't produce much "product' water unless they are huge units.
Carol

bhcaaron

Delta pressures... CHECK! I hadn't heard of that term before, thanks. They produce 1G or RO water per every 4g of waste water hence my indecision. Plus, I now know hard water makes better saltwater. I wonder if there is a way to only filter out phosphate while leaving the rest of the elements?

Butterfly

So thats Thats a lot of waste water! Think of your water bill I don't think the membranes are particular what they filter out, it just filters it all out.
Carol

bhcaaron

Yeah, I know. As for the waste water, it really won't be wasted. I have enough plants to water, so, the use of the hose would be replaced with RO waste water... same diff!

Butterfly

You have a barrel or something for the waste water to run into? The unit will constantly run I imagine so you would constantly have waste run off right?
Carol

bhcaaron

I found one by Watts (the company) which states it will not run continuously. I hope. Still, if I can find something that can take care of phosphates before mixing the salt in, I would much rather do that. I like the idea of hard water being a natural buffer.

sirdarksol

#1, he's going to list numbers that seem high for chemicals that seem dangerous. He's going to try to scare you into thinking that your water is poisoning you (which it might be, who knows?). Accept the information he gives you, ask if you can get a printout, and then look the information up on the internet to determine just how dangerous the stuff is.
Also remember that our ability to scientifically detect chemicals in water is far greater than our ability to determine whether or not such chemicals have an impact on the human or animal body.
There's an issue going on in my area where 3M had allowed a chemical to leak into groundwater awhile ago. The chemical has no really obvious negative effects, but there is no knowledge of what more subtle changes it could cause.

Mike

Check out the Kold-Steril units at marinedepot.com. I think they go for $300 bucks. I've read many great things about these units but have not tried them myself. They're basically highly efficient tap water filters. I don't think you can totally eliminate all the phosphates using a kold-steril unit though. But what about getting a phosban reactor ($45) to run in the sump or on the side of the tank to remove phosphates in conjunction with something like a kold-steril unit? That way you wouldn't have to worry so much about wasted water.

bhcaaron

Thanks SirDarkSol. My willingness to partake in this is no more surpassed than my desire to get some sort of read out. I'm still going to call the water company for the official one, however, I feel like being a jerk. He wasted my time so I figured I'd return the favor.

Mike, thanks for the phosban reactor tip. I'm going to look it up. Hopefully it may be something I can use in my premixing tank so I can keep the hard water and not have to spend on an RO/DI system at all.

bhcaaron

WOW Mike! I just spent half an hour reading DIY articles from phosphate and phosphate removal to mangroves... I really like mangroves now! I'm just not sure they are the best thing for me, who knows? Still reading on them... see what you did!?

Mike

He he. I know what you're going through. It's similar to MTS in that it (researching the saltwater topics) can be just as addicting. There's soooo many differing opinions out there on what you need or don't need, what works and what doesn't, do this or do that, etc. My advice would be to take your time and enjoy the research. Reading and learning is one of the best parts about life.

bhcaaron

Oooh! Philosopher AND moderator! Who knew?

Mike

ahh, yes

bhcaaron

LoL I love that!

Gozer_1

I use a Captive Purity 4 Stage RO\DI filter. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ct~CP1333.html I have never had a problem and as a matter of fact you can add Marine Buffers before the salt if it worries you. The salt mix its self has all the stuff you need so really pure water is A.O.K. I'd rather filter it all out and add back what I want in. Gives me more control over the whole system. Just my thoughts on it.

bhcaaron

So I'd be paying to do double work on what I'd already have there in the first place?

Gozer_1

What you have in your tap water that would be helpfull to your tank is tiny compared to what you need and with the other things in the water its best to start fresh. You wouldn't be doing extra work. You'd be doing the same work. If you think adding a little buffer is more work than maintaining Mangroves or a Phosban reactor you are sadly mistaken. I have had leaps and bounds of success with my tank since I started using pure water and I use straight pure water and salt mix. Everything you need is in the mix in ample amounts. As I said, better to start pure and know exactly what is in your tank water everytime you change water. Tap water does not have a constant quality. I use pure water for top offs too and my numbers are spectacular.
ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 Phosphate 0 Silicate almost 0. My pH tests exactly 8.3 evey time I test and I test once a week for everything. My system is as stable as they get. I have a jar of buffer I never use cause I never need it. I'll say it again and again, better to start pure and add only what you want and only as much as you want. You have to filter the water and you have to add salt so you are not paying for more or doing extra. It's just how pure the water you start with is.

bhcaaron

INTERESTING! How do you keep your nitrate at zero? What filtration do you have?

Gozer_1

I believe it is the entire setup that keeps my numbers down and out. I do see a slight pink in the nitrate test every now and then if I've overfed or something.
Anyway, I'll give you my basic routine and setup because I think you should look at the big picture. OK Here goes

Setup, 55Gal. Tank
2 Rena Filstar Xp2s
1 - Tray 1 SeaChem Matrix 1.5L
Tray 2 Seachem Denitrate 1.5L
2 - Tray 1 Included foam filter pads
Tray 2a SeaChem SeaGel 250ML
2b SeaChem Purigen 250ML
2c Included Microfiltration pad.
1 Aqua C Remora skimmer
1 ZooMed powerhead
1 Orbit dual PC light 260W (kinda low)
50Lbs Aragonite substrate
70Lbs live rock
2 Blue green chromis 1.5in
1 Tomato Clown 2in
1 Purple Pseudochromis 2in
30 Jumbo Cerith Snails
40 Nassarius Snails
2 Atrea Snails
1 Mexican Turbo Snail
1 Patch of Green Star Polyps 3inX4in

Ok thats it. Everything. I dose with Purple Up, SeaChem Reef Trace, and SeaChem Reef Plus every 3 days. I also add some SeaChem Carbonate once in awhile if need be, usually once a month. I also want to start using a magnesium and a Strontium supplement as they usually run a shy low. Purple Up may be helping those. I've had higher results since starting to use it. I use RO/DI water and SeaChem Reef salt mix in weekly 10-20 percent water changes. I give one half of the substrate a good deep stir with a gravel washer once a month or so then the other half the next. I vaccuum the surface once a week. I also rinse all filter media (Matrix and Denitrate in tank water only) and rinse out the filter housing as part of my water change routine.
I think thats it. What you have to realize is that my tank didn't get to this point in a week or a month. It's been going for almost a year now. The first 6 Months were . I didn't study nearly enough and had to do a lot of research and such to solve problems I kept having. I made a lot of mistakes and so learned from them. A lot of things have to get established. Live rock has to recolonize to full potential, same with Biomedia. I use dead sand so that had to get colonized. Having good flow through your live rock is important. Figuring out the best place for in/outputs and power heads in your particular tank. Finding a good media company (you may notice some loyalty to SeaChem) and good supplements (again with the SeaChem). There is just so much to it that to give a definitive answer is impossible. Some one could do this exact setup and have totally different results. Who knows. Hope it means something to ya though.

Gozer_1

By the way I'm planning on trying a couple products. Kent Marine R/O Right and Osmo Prep Marine. I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is and try some supplements for my RO/DI water to see if it makes a difference. I'm curious to see. I don't think it will make much but I can't truly say with out trying. I'll let you know if I'm eating my words about RO/DI water.

bhcaaron

Hahahaha sounds good. That is very interesting to know your routine. I wonder if I can get everyone to cooperate and give me their routine like you did?

Gozer_1

I think routine has as much to do with water quality as your filters and skimmers and blah blah blah. Anyway I'm off to the LFS. I ordered 3 Blue Chromis and they are in. Yippy

bhcaaron

Pics, pics, We want pics pics!!!