Gozer_1

I'm clueless on this subject and couldn't find any one place with all the answers so I started this topic to try to build an all in one "How To" refugium topic. Any refugium info you want to share, by all means share. Whether they answer my questions or not. I'm sure I will have many questions as I get along in my project.

That said here is my mega question list.


OK here's the deal, I have an empty 10 Gal tank and a 55 Gal Marine with no refugium. What will it take for me to use this 10 Gal. tank as a refugium? Can I set it on a stand next to my display and pump from one to the other and back? I have 2 Rena Filstar XP2 Canisters. They pump 250 gph. Is that too much flow? Too little? Can I use them in a circulation pattern. Out from my display, through some carbon and floss, into the 10 gal. then out of the 10 gal through the second XP2 and some bio material, then into the display. In one thread some one was talking about overflows and baffles. Well I'm baffled on that one. Also, what lighting will be best for it?
Once I have a working refugium, what do I put in it? I have live sand, and a nice piece of rock. That's it. I need to know some stuff I can grow in there. Shrimp? Snails? Crabs? Macro Algae? I would like to have a refugium worth looking at. lol

Well, that is all I can think of for now. Please post soon lol

agsansoo

This is a favorite subject with me !!!

OK ... As for the canister filter for intake and out-take for the fuge ... don't do it. You will end up with a flood, this is why everyone uses overflow boxes. Whatever the return pump delivers to the display tank ... that amount of water flows back down to the sump/fuge. Look for my updated "show me your refugium" page, I will update it tonight.

atmmachine816

O I shall have to read you update, that threads been dieing to have an update

Refugiums have different purposes, grow copepods, reduce nitrates with macro algae, hide equipment and be a place to have more live rock for more filtration. Correct me if I'm wrong agansoo but I believe that's what they are for right

agsansoo

That's right atm ... Plus it adds more total water volume to your system !

atmmachine816

duh forgot that one

Gozer_1

OK so I read this article on About.com discussing refugiums. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/aqu...a/aa041400.htm
The description they give for a refugium is what I'm looking for. Not so much a place to hide stuff and clean water, but a place for the easy going crowd to live peacefully. I'm going to go the other way around with the refugium higher than the display. That way the overflow is from the refugium to the display. I don't want scummy display surface water. Like I said I want something cool to look at. As for the under the tank "reverse photosynthesis" thing that article talks about, I'm pretty covered on filtration. I have lots of live rock plus one XP2 is nothing but porous bacteria laden rocks - SeaChem Matrix and Denitrator. Maybe down the road I'll try one, my problem is that when I went shopping for my first fish the LFS lady talked me into a "really cute and active" fish. He is a vicious killer!!!!!!!!!!!! See my topic in fish species specific "A kick in the Wrasse" . I need a place for some shrimp and copepods, and such. Just for the pleasure of watching them in action.

By the way the baffling baffles comment was referring to the "show me your refugiums" post. That just wasn't the refugium type I was looking for. Thanks for any and all help.

agsansoo

Are you looking for a 5 gallon plastic (acrylic) above main tank refuge ? If so I have a PDF how to that might give you some ideas how to build one cheap !

Gozer_1

Kinda sorta, yeah. I think I have a plan. A little overflow action. I think it will work nicely. First I will pump water from a small sump into a 10 Gal tank. This tank will be set next to but higher than the main display. I want this to then overflow to the main display, which will then overflow back into the sump. The only problem I see is setting up the overflow from the 10 into the main. Might take some "on the spot" engineering. I'm not exactly sure where to go with overflows lol I've looked at pictures on line and have seen generally 2 kinds. One is a basically a box inside the tank with holes drilled in the aquarium side to plumb a drain into the sump, and the other looks like something that hangs on the back. Not sure how that would work. Anyway what kind of overflow device are we talking about here. I'd like to avoid taking too much more space in the display. Plus I don't know about making holes in a glass aquarium. Sounds a little sketchy to me.

Gozer_1

OK, so I have done some reading  and I've decided to go under. The LFS lady found a new home for the mean fish  so I can go forth with my reef. No need for a display refugium. I have found some great designs, even found one with the same equipment I have. I understand the baffles, all the Sump/fuge building things. What I need to know now is..... Do I need to match overflow rate to return pump rate? Or do I go big with the overflow so that it's capable of anything the pump can throw at it. The Overflow shouldn't "overflow" any more than the pump can pump back in right? Speaking of overflows. Does anyone know about the CPR H.O.T overflow box or Tom Aquatics Surface Skimmer Overflow box, or any other hang on overflows?

agsansoo

Question 1 : Do I need to match overflow rate to return pump rate?
Answer 1 : Yes, it has to be able to handle the pump output.

Question 2 : The Overflow shouldn't "overflow" any more than the pump can pump back in right?
Answer 2 : Correct, whatever gets pumped up, an equal amount flows back down.

Question 3 : Does anyone know about the CPR H.O.T overflow box or Tom Aquatics Surface Skimmer Overflow box, or any other hang on overflows?
Answer 3 : I have a CPR H.O.T overflow box. I forget the model number, it the one that's rated for 600 gph. (more later g2g)

agsansoo

More on Question 2 : The Overflow shouldn't "overflow" any more than the pump can pump back in right?

There's two ways to get flooded floors. The first way is if the overflow box looses it's siphon ... The return pump keeps pumping water up into the main display tank until the tank overflows. The second way is if the return pump stop working (like in a power outage). Water exits the tank via the overflow box and the return line, the return pump line creates a siphon. If the return line is under water too far, all that water will end up in your sump. (wet floors) That's why you must drill a 1/4" hole in your return pipe as a siphon break.

agsansoo

Oh yeah ... There are two types of H.O.T. overflow boxes, a weir type and a U-tube type. I like the weir style better. More on this tomorrow !

Gozer_1

Well as far as the flooding due to the return pumping and the overflow not overflowing, I plan to install a fill level switch to kill the return pump if the display gets too full. I hadn't thought about back siphoning though. My return is going to be a horizontal tube near the top with a capped end and four output holes drilled in the side. Sounds like that will be OK. The drawing I found shows the same output as the one I have.

I've been making little drawings of plans and looking up how to make baffles. Going to build a new stand now. lol
Thanks for offering your wisdom It's been an enormous help.

agsansoo

Here's a photo of my overflowbox and return line.


I drilled three small holes in the return line at the swivel joint.

Gozer_1

Well, I just thought I'd update this thread real quick. I am almost done with the new stand and have everything planned out. I still need the overflow box and a return pump as well as finishing the stand. I'm going with a Mag Drive return at 190 GPH with a CPR overflow rated up to 300 GPH with a 10 Gallon fuge. I wanted to go with a 20 but it just won't fit. No biggy, I have 1 Rena Filstar xp2 with bio media, and 1 with foam and chemical filter stuff so this is more for copepods and the like as well as a place to stash my noisy skimmer.

Gozer_1

Sure wish I could get things together and finish this thing. Too many set backs. If only wood was free I'd be done with this thing. lol

Gozer_1

So long ago I started this thread. I was fired up to get things rolling. As I started planning things out I realised quickly, how much work it was going to take. I started planning and building a new stand that would be big enough for a 20 gallon sump. After finishing the frame many months later I realized it was the exact same size as a 75 gallon stand. Around the same time Outlaw had sparked my interest in a used 75. Long story short, I made a great deal with my LFS and bought a tank and stand ending my long lived battle with motivation to build a stand. Left with no excuses I started putting things together. At long last the thing is working and I feel a small sense of accomplishment lol

In the next few posts I hope to pass on my lessons and give a good detail of what I did and what I should have done. I think anyone interested in building their own sump system will find it interesting and may help them avoid some of my mistakes. Atleast I hope lol.

Gozer_1

Ok, the first thing to consider is space. Space below, behind and in your tank. How much room is there between the stand doors? This space is more important than "How big of a sump do I need for my tank?". You can find a few things that say X amount of sump for Y amount of display but in the end you can only use what you have the room for. That space should be used to the fullest. There is no maximum sump size. Believe me, the more room you have in the sump, the easier your life will be.

The space below is most important. You need to know what the largest size tank you can fit in the stand and have working room. This includes space above the sump for things like skimmer collection cups. Mine is short a couple inches and the skimmate has to be siphoned out because I can't remove the cup. You want the largest size sump you can fit through the door and work above. In my case that is a 20 gallon tank. I would like to have used a long but had a free standard 20.

The other two dimensions pertain to the overflow. My tank not being predrilled meant I needed a box. That box needs room behind the tank as well as inside the display. Most take up very little room inside the tank. Mine does, however, require a fair amount of space behind the tank. (It's a CPR box by the way)

Those are the things to consider first before you start planning. Once you know what you are going to be working with it's time to start thinking about what you want your sump to be. What is it's purpose to you? Just a filter and a place to stash equipment or do you want more than that? Having a large sump space offers you a lot of options. Biological filtering, skimming, and even a refugium. Typically they consist of 3 sections. A filter\equipment section, a refugium and a return section. Thats the setup I used and would suggest to anyone else. I'll detail each section later down the road when I get to the actual sump construction. For now just think about how you want to use this space. What you want to put in there is going to determine how big your sections need to be. For mine, I decided I wanted one side to act like a canister filter and the other to be a small refugium to help boost my pod population. I also knew I wanted to fit my skimmer in there some how too. Armed with this I started planning a basic sump design. I reead about baffles and bubble catchers and so many other things and started making sketches. Next post I'll get into the design stage. I'll skip my trial and error and just pass on what I learned from it lol