R--

has anyone ever kept a population of four or five redtail sharks? the reason i ask is because every time i introduce a new rt, no matter the size or sex, the local rt will chase it to death. i have had a jack dempsey and a redtail for years, they get along fine as long as the rt keeps his distance, and it seems smart enough to do so. but i would like to see a peaceful group of rt's in my 55 gal. i wonder though, would the resident rt systematicly single out each one?
thanks

capekate

It sure would look nice if you were able to have a group of RT'es.
But reading my 'fish bible' it says:
" a loner that stakes out its own territory and will become aggressive towards other members of its speciies. This intolerance can be extended to other species as well, particulary by older specimens.
hope this helps..

R--

yeah, figured as much from what i read myself, but i love the look of a healthy older redtail, they're such cool fish, would love to have more. too bad. thanks

capekate

Your welcome...
There are a lot of fish I would love to keep as well, but know that I cannot. Enjoy the one that you have, it must be getting to a nice mature size now. I would like to add one to my 55, but the temps there are just too high, they prefer water temps 72*-79*.

Redtail_Shark14

Redtail Sharks are too aggressive twards other redtails they are mean little sucker lol. its better off keeping him alone.

Johawk

http://elmersaquarium.com/10shark_redtail.htm

This site says that they should be kept alone, or in groups of 3 or more.

Red1313

I've read that if you have a group of 6+ and a lot of hiding places you can have sucess. However I think that if you already have one he's already claimed his territory and unless the ones your adding are as big as him it likely wouldn't work so well.

Allie

I would go with one RT per tank not an smaller than a 50g.

davencats

I've 5 RTBS in a 23 gallon (36x15x18 inches) tank. They've live together for over 2 years. There's also glowlite tetras, zebra danios and bristle-nosed cats. RTBS are territorial but not aggressive. Lots of poeple have trouble with these fish. They're algae eaters. A tank with lots of algae will support a large population. You'll never have any injurries if there's adequate food.

You won't have trouble at feeding time. RTBS will show no interest in commercial foods while there's adequate algae to graze on.

These fish are misundertood. Supply an environment with lots of caves and algae and you'll achieve something very few people can. Good luck.

Jo3olous

Agree and disagree. They are territorial. They will scare off other fish when feeding food that drops to bottom (pellets, bloodworm cubes) my RTBS chases my Tiger barbs around during feeding time daily. Eventually the RTBS will be an adult and it will not be fond of anything with a red tail in its vacinity, so if you don't have a 50G+ tank or something long, prepare for a RTBS battle royale no matter how many hiding spots you have.

RTBS do seem to get along with other bottom feeders lacking a red tail though, in most cases at least.

I'm still waiting for my RTBS to go nutso on my clown loach, so I can move him to another tank.

Shawnie

wow you must be the acception to the rule! 23 gallons and 5 of them? I have one, and hes major agressive...never seen him eat algae either ...so I got some cories...mine eat bloodworms, flakes, pellets, and everything but algae..you are deffinately the acception to the rule in that size tank

Red1313

My Red will never eat any of the sinking pellets that I've got maybe it's the wrong kind I don't know but he never comes up for the flakes either... come to think of it he doesn't leave his cave very often... somtimes I get to see him really early in the morning if I'm sneaky... lol.

davencats

Absolute rubbish. Most hobbiest lack the understanding of water quality and ecology to properly set up a fish tank. Catfish are very adaptable fish. Catfish will eat anything, but prefer certain types of food. RTS are specifically algae eaters. If they lack adequate natural food within their environment they'll eat anything. I'm guessing from the replies I see that they may even become aggressive when desperate. In a properly set up environment RTS will continually graze on algae and completely ignor feeding times.

Red1313

Hmmm... that's a lot of algae for a full grown fish...

Barbrella

It might be best to check one's facts before calling other people's statements
"absolute rubbish" especially when one is claiming to be so knowledgeable.

First: Red Tailed Black sharks are NOT catfish, but a type of minnow. Why do you call them catfish?

Second: they are NOT specifically algae eaters, although they may graze it a bit. They need a variety of foods like any other fish. Perhaps you're confusing them with Siamese Algae Eaters?

Third: they do not become aggressive when "desperate". They are genetically territorial and aggressive to other fish, particularly their own species, to such a degree that breeding is very difficult and is usually done in commercial ponds.

So, what Jo3olous says is perfectly correct.

P.S. Your 23 gal tank is grossly overstocked and that's probably why you're not having problems with RTs. In such crowded conditions, they are unable to defend territories.

davencats

You've overlooked so much, I can't correct everything!

You should have continued to research. If you had you'd have found that labeo (the family that RTS belong to), minnow, characins, catfish and carp are all related.

Also, very few people understand what overcrowded means. Most hobbiest try to elimate waste. Many types of bacteria are required within your tank for the environment to work properly. Some of these bacteria feed on fish waste. Some of these bacteria work in partnership with fish and are required for fish to remain healthy.

Lakes and water ways don't require waste management. They have a complete ecosystem. A tank should be planned to created the most complete ecosystem posible. A tank with a wide variation of feeding types and levels, varieties of aquatic animals and plants will almost look after itself, almost eliminating the need for water changes and creating a support sytem possible of supporting truely impressive levels of life.

I'm finding these chat forums to be a waste of time. Wish I could find someone who knows what they're talking about.

Red1313

Red-Tailed Black Shark; Red-Tailed Labeo
Epalzeorhynchus bicolor

A cyprind
a part of the order Cypriniformes and the famliy Cyprinidae.
Cypiniforme includes 6 families:
Balitoridae, Catostomidae, Cobitidae, Cyprinidae, Gyrinocheilidae, and Psilorhynchidae [ 1 ]
Cyprinidae includes 2010 species and 210 genera. They are found in brackish and fresh water all over the globe. Many of the species within this family have the common name of carps and minnows.
[ 2 , 3 ]
Cyprind is the largest part of this order with over 1400 different speicies from all over the world. [ 4 ]

Epalzeorhynchos bicolor
Redtail sharkminnow
Aquarium keeping: Solitary, can be in a community tank provided it is the only RTS, if you want more then one keep in large tanks over 50 gal.
Minimum aquarium size: 120 cm, 30 US gal, 36" (91 cm) apporx 35 gal
Feeding: Omnivorous, feeding on plant matter and small benthic animals. Will accept catfish pellets which makes good staple, requires a diet that includes live foods.
[ 6, 5, 4]

Scientific Classification:
The relation between catfish, and RTS. Is as close as we are to them.

Catfish
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: osteichthyes
Superorder: Ostariophysi
Order: Siluriformes
[7]

red tail shark
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Actinopterygii
Order: Cypriniformes
Family: Cyprinidae
Genus: Epalzeorhynchos
Species: E. bicolor
[8]

Human
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Primates
Family: Hominidae
Genus: Homo
Species: sapiens
[10]

As for eco systems,
ecosystem: inlcudes not only the biotic enviroment affecting a community of organisms in an area but also the abiotic enviroment affecting the community.
This concept can be applied to any scale.
[9]
However Red Tail sharks did not evolve in a 25 gal aquarium, no fish evolved with in an aquarium. therefore while we can attempt to set up a self sustaining ecosystem within one it must be remebered that these fish did not evolve for that enviroment. They evolved to fit a certian niche in their enviroment. You cannot fully repilicate the enviromental contions of an eco system, (rainfall, evaopration, intricate food webs, ect.). We can try to keep our fish, healthy and happy.

If you believe that your wasting your time on forums where people come to learn, please, feel free to leave at anytime.
Thank-you everyone.

References:
1 http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Orde...=Cypriniformes

2 http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Fami...ary.cfm?id=122

3 http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Cyprinidae

4 http://fish.mongabay.com/cyprinds.htm

5 http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Epalzeorhynchus_bicolor

6 http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Spec...y.php?id=10835

7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catfish

8 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red-tailed_black_shark

9 Booker et al. Biology
published in 2008

10 http://anthro.palomar.edu/animal/table_humans.htm

Barbrella

I agree with that, but disagree with the fact that you are doing so by jamming about 40 - 50" of fish from many different environments into 23 gallons of water and thinking that's natural. On the contrary, that's about as unnatural as it gets.

Good luck finding someone who thinks very overcrowded small tanks with inappropriate inhabitants are a good thing.