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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| GBR help
Hey there so I am back for more help. My tank as been running great for over a month now with the two angelfish and two zebra danios. So I finally went to get my favorite fish. The German Blue Rams. The first day or two they were just hiding in the back of the tank like most new fish do. But today one of the fish is swimming around freely and kinda bullying the other one. The other fish kinda gets chased and is forced into a corner where it stays. It is unfortunate because the one being bullied is easily the prettier of the two. The fish are fairly large they are 2.5"+. My water conditions are good. No ammonia, No nitrite, and like 20ppm of nitrate, also the water is sitting at about 80F. Is there anything I can do to help or is this something that will go away on its own.
From reading other threads I have gathered that this could be a bad thing but is there anything I can do to improve the situation? I have a few tall plastic plants in my tank and plenty of shorter ones. Along with a small cave like structure.
I will provide pictures tomorrow if it helps.
Edit: one thing I forgot to mention. Both fish are holding color great. From the other threads telling horror stories along these lines they all noticed loss of color in the one being bullied. Also my fish that is being bullied is breathing relatively fast. | 
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| How large is the tank? Have you been able to sex them? | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| 30 gal and i think they are males | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| 2 males may just continue to fight. Can your return one of them and try to get a female? | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| The LFS wont let me swap. | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| As above, the two males will fight and the dominate one will bully the other. There is not much you can do other than have plenty of hiding places for them in the way of a lot of bushes and plants. It wont stop the aggression, but it may help if the aggressor is not able to 'see' the other fish too often. It is during the times that the view is blocked that the one that is getting bullied may get some relief for however long or short a period, but at least get some relief..
Best of luck with them, they are gorgeous fish! Photos would be great..  | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Here are the piccies
The one being bullied and his reflection in the glass. 
Both 
The bully 
See I told you the one being bullied is prettier! | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| they are both gorgeous!  I would try and give them more hiding places.. really fill it up and see how it goes.  | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Do you have any recommendations as far as hiding places go? Are we talking cave structures or plants.....And I'd like to do it on the cheap if possible. | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Anything that is going to break the line of vision. You can get away with the small artificial plants that are only like 4 inches tall and those are pretty inexpensive, even the silk material ones are not expensive. But it would help to bunch them up around the bottom so that the ram can hide among the plants. You did mention you had a cave structure so that is good. You can also try some very small terra cotta pots and maybe the ram can use one of those for a hiding place as well. | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| This is bad the bullied one is just kinda laying on the bottom. Its late. I cant go out and buy any structures any ideas? I have a small 1.5gal tank but it is empty....if I set it up quick do you think it will be ok? | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Helper
| Unfortunately, GBR's though mostly peaceful are still cichlids. Two males in a 30G will almost always have the same results that you are experiencing. Your best bet is to bring one back to the store, or you will most likely see the picked on fish die. If it were me, I would not place the bullied fish in the 1.5G. I would probably get the lights turned off and try to settle the tank down for the night. Rams are funny, because you can get aggressive bullies, laid back easy going guys, or stressed out litlle nervous wrecks. With an aggressive bully like yours, I would suggest either keeping him alone or adding two females. I have had some GBR's that just wouldn't tolerate another GBR in their tank...male or female.
I have two breeding pairs at the moment, one pair of Jumbo GBR's like yours that will spawn by some time tomorrow, and one pair of regular GBR's from previous breeders that have since died. I also still have a male with an abnormal dorsal fin from a previous spawn from one of my previous pairs.
Good luck, keep us posted. | |
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July 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Well too late for anything now. I found Bloolegard dead. RIP fishy! 
I left for 30 minutes for shower + checking the thread....and he passed.
What is absolutely sad is that I personally witnessed the killing blow as I just rounded the corner to the tank to check on it.
Last edited by Indian_villager; July 2nd, 2009 at 10:29 PM.
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| I'm sorry you lost one of your GBR's. They are beautiful fish! | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| oooo I am so sorry to hear the little guy didnt make it. I have seen aggression between my GBRs but never to the point of death. Im wondering if your little guy may have not already been weakened or sick before you brought him home. You can leave your lone GBR alone with no other of its species, it will be fine in the tank and you wont have to worry about going through this again.  | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Fish Helper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by capekate  oooo I am so sorry to hear the little guy didnt make it. I have seen aggression between my GBRs but never to the point of death. Im wondering if your little guy may have not already been weakened or sick before you brought him home. You can leave your lone GBR alone with no other of its species, it will be fine in the tank and you wont have to worry about going through this again. | Sorry for the loss of your fish. Unfortunately, I have first hand experience with fatal aggression in GBR's. I would really consider leaving this guy alone in your tank. If you try to add females, I would have a back up plan to relocate them to another tank. | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| I feel so bad. They were beautiful fish. Would GBR's show aggression against Bolivians? | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| Probably not. With dwarf cichlids (unless they are spawning), aggression is mostly limited to conspecifics. Every now and then, you'll run across an extra aggressive fish, but it isn't common. My husband used to have a ram we called the "killer ram." He killed a female and terrorized an angelfish in a 29 gallon tank. He was so aggressive that he ended up with an entire 29 gallon to himself. What size is your tank? I wouldn't add a Bolivian with a GBR in anything less than 29 gallons. Each fish needs room to claim a territory. | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Indian_villager I feel so bad. They were beautiful fish. Would GBR's show aggression against Bolivians? | I really wouldnt add any Bolivians in with that GB ram. Since they are all bottom dwellers with pretty much the same behavior, you may see aggression towards the Bolivians from that very aggressive GB you have.
Ive had many GBRs and never had any so aggressive as to kill another. But it happens and unfortunatly it happened to you. 
I would leave well enough alone and not get any more, it sounds like your guy is much too aggressive for tanks mates in the ram family. | |
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July 3rd, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| As stated above I have a 30 gal with two angels, two danios, and now the one ram. | |
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August 1st, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Great I just came home today to find my other GBR dead. There goes a total of $30 down the drain with these fish. | |
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August 1st, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| what are your water tests? do they seem to breath heavy? | |
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August 1st, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| It was swimming around perfectly fine at 5pm. I got to philly to visit a sick aunt come back at 11PM and it is lying in a corner dead. Now that I think about it it did have a few odd brownish spots within the body that were visible from the outside.
I plan on doing the water tests later tonight and I'll be back with results. | |
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August 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Awwww....I am sorry you lost him.  | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Sorry for the delay but the water conditions were 0 for everything except nitrates which is at about 15ppm
The pH is at 7.6
Temp 81F
Stock
2 Angels
2 Zebra Danios
1 Bristlenose Pleco
1 piece of java fern. | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Shame, sorry for your losses... | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| I'm sorry you lost them
GBR's are difficult to keep alive. A lot of members have had trouble. More than likely, you didn't do anything wrong. | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| It sucks. They were such pretty fish. Are bolivians easier to keep? Are they just as aggressive toward eachother? | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| I'm sorry you lost your GBR's. I lost mine pretty quickly also. You're right, they're gorgeous fish. | |
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August 6th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| We have to bolivian rams-one is my daughters. they are easier to keep IMO. However, there was aggression while they were together in a 20, then aggression when we tried them together in a 29. I believe some of our other members have had this problem as well. Maybe it would be better if you only did one. You can try two, but you should have a backup plan in case it doesn't work out.
Hope this helps. | |
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