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February 13th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| german blue ram or bolivian ram
i wanted to have a 20 gal planted tank with about 12 neon tetras and a pair of either bolivian rams or GBR's. i would definitely rather have the rams but which one would stay smaller/more active/not delicate. i am leaning towards the bolivian rams. any ideas
Last edited by crispy0; February 13th, 2009 at 09:02 PM.
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| The GBRs tend to be more sensitive than the more hardy Bolivians. But IMO if your water is cycled and the readings are good then I dont see why you cant have either. It is more of a personal choice, Ive had both in my tank and the GBRs are much more colorful than the Bolivians, but both have the same personality.
Your tank sounds great... it should be very nice with which ever ram you decide.  | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| along with that, the GBRs are definitely smaller than the bolivians, but less active | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| really? You thought yours were less active? My two species pretty much had the same personalities and both were pretty active in the tank. | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| no i haven't kept any (i want GBRs though as soon as i set up my 29), i've just heard that they tend to be less active than the bolivians, but i guess it depends on the fish | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Both of my species were fine and active. I didnt notice any difference. I have not heard that the GBRs were less active than the Bolivians. I imagine it can depend on what else is in the tank on whether they are active or not. | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| hmm, that's interesting....i'll try to remember where i heard that! | |
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February 13th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| I thought Rams were more active in general. i guess depends on how one views activeness! | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| alright so ive decided to sock bolivians, neons and oto's(most likely 3)
i think this might be a little over-stocked but im sure the heavy planting and 25% weekly water changes should work. i am really excited and hope to start the cycling on tuesday.
is there any special way i should cycle this for example cycle without plants just eco complete then add plants then fish or what?
i think the watts per gallon is around 3 | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Rams, Neons and Oto's won't over stock your tank. In fact I think it'd be perfectly stocked, with a nice balance. | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| perfect! i was planning on making a journal but i dont really no how. it is going to be my first planted tank | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Cycle the tank with your substrate (eco-complete or w/e you decide on) and a few hardy plants like anacharis and an anubias or something. The algae will have to fight for the same nutrients as the plants and this will help prevent algae growth early on. I also use a phosphate/silicate remover by Seachem in my filter to also combat algae.
IMO GBR with their color, and smaller size alone make them the better choice especially for a smaller tank. In my experience GBRs arent as delicate as people make them seem as long as your water parameters are on par. I have a 45g planted tank with 2 pairs of GBRs and they seem just as active as my neon tetras or cories. GBRs love heavily planted tanks and places to take cover.
Last edited by ledzeppman; February 14th, 2009 at 05:06 AM.
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0  perfect! i was planning on making a journal but i dont really no how. it is going to be my first planted tank | Here's how to Request a Blog
This way you can keep your progress in one place.
Pretty cool huh? | 
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Hey now...Bolivians have nice color too! Be nice! 
*overly protective of her Bolivians*  | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Beautiful Shaina!  Mine never colored up so well. You have a very nice Bolivian there. Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaina Hey now...Bolivians have nice color too! Be nice!
*overly protective of her Bolivians* | | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by capekate Beautiful Shaina! Mine never colored up so well. You have a very nice Bolivian there. | They knew they would always be judged second rate to the GBRs and got depressed  lol
And thanks I adore those guys | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaina They knew they would always be judged second rate to the GBRs and got depressed lol
And thanks I adore those guys |  hahah I think your right about that! hehe.. I just looooved my GBRs but couldnt find any more of them around here that were healthy enough to bring into my tank. But my Bolivians were sweethearts too... | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| WOW NICE COLORS ON THE BOLIVIAN. what exactly are the water paramaters i heve pretty hard water. i have heard the bolivians tend to like water that is hard. which fish should i put in first? otos neons or bolivian. also how do you sex the bolivians? and if i get 1 male and 2 female how long will it take them to pair off. i dont want it to be too long because the LFS might not take the extra 1 back and i wouldnt have room for i?
it turns out i only have t-8 lighting in my eclipse hood that puts me at 2- 15 watt bulbs. can it possibly hold a stronger bulb? also when should i put in the DIY CO2? and could this lighting support the plants you mentioned?
really sorry for all of the questions but i dont want to mess this up. also should i get any ferts and when should i add them.
sorry | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| I just found another LFS near me, and this one carries Rams.
*does happy dance*
Not sure of the type though, so thos thread is really helping me out too. | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 how do you sex the bolivians? and if i get 1 male and 2 female how long will it take them to pair off. | Sexing bolivians can be difficult when they're young, even if you know what to look for. There's a bolivian ram sexing guide thread that may help, or you can post pictures for people to sex. If you go the picture route, try for a side-shot, preferably with the area between pectoral and anal fins clearly visible.
As for how long it will take for them to pair off, that depends on too many factors to answer, not the least of which is the age of the fish in question. Mine took a few months to pair off, but they were quite young when I got them. Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 it turns out i only have t-8 lighting in my eclipse hood that puts me at 2- 15 watt bulbs. can it possibly hold a stronger bulb? | Probably not. Most hoods that come with bulbs come with the highest wattage bulb the fixture will support. | |
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February 14th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| okay well since i dont think i will be able to sex the rams corectly on the first try i think ill just get a pair of GBR.oh well. i think i might be able to sex the GBRs i heard that females have a pink spot in thier belly and males dont is that correct | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 WOW NICE COLORS ON THE BOLIVIAN. what exactly are the water paramaters i heve pretty hard water. i have heard the bolivians tend to like water that is hard. which fish should i put in first? otos neons or bolivian. also how do you sex the bolivians? and if i get 1 male and 2 female how long will it take them to pair off. i dont want it to be too long because the lfs might not take the extra 1 back and i wouldnt have room for i?
it turns out i only have t-8 lighting in my eclipse hood that puts me at 2- 15 watt bulbs. can it possibly hold a stronger bulb? also when should i put in the DIY CO2? and could this lighting support the plants you mentioned?
really sorry for all of the questions but i dont want to mess this up. also should i get any ferts and when should i add them.
sorry | Bolivian and GBRs prefer a soft water low pH. They also prefer a well established tank and should go in last. females tend to have a pinkish/red belly. Males tend to have more color in them, (Bolivians).
Your light only can carry a wattage that it is rated for.
If your light is a standard light you can go with low lighted plants and do fine. But the moderate to high light plants will most likely die. | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| so let me make sure this is right.
bolivians: males= more color
females=pink belly | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 so let me make sure this is right.
bolivians: males= more color
females=pink belly | Mathas give you a great link to read on IDing the gender of rams. There are a number of things to consider in IDing the gender. The easiest is the 'more color' on the males, and the pink belly on the female but that does not always ring true in very young ones. And there is the fin shapes to consider as well. Check out the link from Mathas and see what you can pick up from there to help you ID your future rams. Best of luck with that! | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 WOW NICE COLORS ON THE BOLIVIAN. what exactly are the water paramaters | Looks like the rest of your questions were covered, but to answer this one, the water parameters in that tank are: ammonia: 0 nitrite: 0 nitrate: 10-15ppm
pH: 7.1
Temp: 80F
The colors vary between that pic and the pic in my sig (same fish) based on what's going on. He's most colorful after interacting with the female BR/angelfish or at feeding time. | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 females=pink belly | This is only accurate for german blue rams, not bolivians. See the german blue ram sexing guide for a good example.
For bolivians, there are a number of traits that tend to indicate sex, but none of them are 100% accurate except either watching a spawn take place or examining ventrical differences.
If the genital papilla, or breeding tube as it's often called, actually looks like the end of a tube that eggs could pass through, you're almost assuredly looking at a female. If the papilla is smaller and pointed, it's a male. Until you see both sexes together for an immediate comparison, it may be hard to tell... but once you can see both, the difference is apparent (to me, at least). There is an example of each papilla shape in the bolivian ram sexing thread I linked to earlier. | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| I purchased two golden rams last week and they seem to spend most the time in the dense plants. Is this because they're still not used to the tank or is this normal? | |
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February 15th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| are gold rams the same as GBRs. ive heard they are just a different color variety.would they be hardier or would they be exactly the same.i was debating on them because i think they are much more pretty than the blues | |
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February 16th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy0 are gold rams the same as GBRs. ive heard they are just a different color variety.would they be hardier or would they be exactly the same.i was debating on them because i think they are much more pretty than the blues | They are virtually the same. | |
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