Shaina

I have four Bolivian Rams in my 29 gallon tank, which is full to the brim with plants and a nice cavey-chunk of driftwood to divide up the scenery a bit. I got the ram in two groups (m/f juvie, then a month later, another m/f juvie pair).

First problem: as they matured, it became evident one of the female has the wrong bits and is actually male. This gives me three females and a single male [ETA: This should be three males and one female...typo]. I have attempted to trade one of the males for another female, but I have been unable to locate another female yet.

Reason for this post: this morning as I went to feed the tank, I hung around to watch them eat and make sure everyone was accounted for and healthy. The two smaller males, who both have much brighter coloring than the largest male, grabbed each others jaws and stayed like that, lip-locked. I counted 6 slow seconds before they let go, and they were probably holding on for about 4 seconds before I started counting. Afterward, they ignored each other, and if anything the smaller Ram's coloring became even more vibrant. I know "kissing" is a fighting behavior, but I don't know how serious it is and had never actually seen anything like it before.

Is this all going to be a serious problem or should I just keep an eye on it? Basically I'm wondering if there something I need to do immediately, or if I should just observe closely. I do have an empty 10 gal that's really my quarantine tank, but if that's big enough to move a male and the female into, I could do so if that's necessary...

Other info: I rearranged the 29 gallon last night (can't even walk into the kitchen without being sucked into the tank now, haha), so I probably messed up their territories.

Thanks all...

capekate

Hi Shania
I also have bolivian rams, they are great fish. The lip lock thing, is always either a mating ritual or aggression due to dominance. Its hard to say what is going on. With them being just juvies tho, I doubt that it is a mating ritual. They may be just trying to determine the pecking order with one trying to be the dominate one. I would not be too concerned with it, if it is a random happening. If you find that your remainder rams are getting stressed, changing color, not eating and staying in corners due to fear then I would move the aggresser out to the ten gal. But you may not have to do that. I would watch them carefully tho and see if it gets worse in the tank.
Good luck with your lil babies.. they are such great fun fish to keep!

Jo84

From what I know in a 29 gallon tank only one pair is a lot easier and safer. You said you had three females and one male and then you said two smaller males were fighting. I'm assuming you meant 3 males and 1 female. This can be a problem.

The two smaller males are fighting over dominace for rights on having the female as a mate. Personally I would either take the two smaller males back or take one back for a female. You don't have to do this immediately but over the course of the next two or three weeks so one won't get hurt. If it gets worse I would bring the one of the smaller males back to the LFS within the next week and try to find a female.

Are any of them hurt (i.e.- infflammatin, bleeding, missing scales, nipped fins)

edit: if the liplocking only happens every so often I would't be too concerned but definetly try to find a female to replace one of the males with a female if it gets to aggressive.

Shaina

Since the lip-locking was boy-on-boy, I doubt it was a mating ritual, unless you mean fighting over the girl. So far no one's lost color and everyone goes up to eat together.

And yeah, I love them...I think I will always have rams now, haha...I got my first pair when I was trying to get pearl gouramis...couldn't find the pearls but found these in the process and they took the gourami's place in my tank. Just trying to make sure they are happy and healthy though.

Yep, that was a typo...I corrected it above.

They've never done this before though, which makes me wonder if they are just reestablishing territory after last night's rearrangement, then things may go back to peace? They've all gotten along well up to this point...

I have been trying to trade a male for a female, and at the very least will continue to try to do that (haven't been able to find a female) and keep a close eye on them. I moved to IL since I got these fish, so the LFS that carries them is now two states away...when I moved I still thought I had 2m/2f

Nope...if there was any sign of an injury I would have at least separated them this morning (I have two floating nets for emergencies like that). They are all active, bold, well-colored, and eating heartily as of this morning...no nicked fins or missing scales that I could see.

This is the first time I've seen them display that particular behavior...normally they just do normal cichlid stuff (meet at the edge of their territories, act all macho, then wander off to continue their days). *continues to try to find a female*

Thanks for all your help!

capekate

Hi Shania
your probably very correct in assuming that they were fighting due to your re-arranging the tank and trying to re-establish their territories now. Hopefully as you said, they should calm down after a bit.
Good luck with them!

Shaina

Thanks CapeKate - I hope you're right!

In the event of an emergency, would a m/f pair be okay in a 10 gal? Permanently or temporarily?

If not...I guess I could take my MTS up a notch...

capekate

Hi shania
Some may disagree with me on this one, but in an emergancy I would think that two rams would be ok in the ten gal. But better yet would be to just add the bad boy who is causing all the ruckus into the ten gal by itself til you figure out what you want to do.

Shaina

Well they've been fine since...Big Guy set up camp in the driftwood cave, Nerd's on the right side of the driftwood, in the vals, and Other Guy is on the left enjoying the swords...Wench is pretty much allowed to do as she pleases.

I'll keep an eye on them, but for now it seems like they are returning to a state of peace. If two do pair off and it's an issue, I'd likely take them out and put them in the other 10 gal for a few days while I set up a 20 for them...

Thanks again

Allie

Most American cichlids are pairing fish, and should be kept in pairs. For small ones 20g per pair is good. I had to treat my keyhole pair in a 10g for a month so, in a temporary situation a pair of Bolivian rams should be ok in a 10g.
Convicts, Angelfish, Keyholes, and all sorts of Rams pair off and pick on the extra fish.

capekate

Hi Shania
Im so glad that its working out for you now.. and everyone has calmed down and found their 'place'.

Shaina

As stated above, I'm trying to trade a male for a female so I have the proper ratio...just have trouble locating ANY bolivian rams around here...apparently I will be going back to Ohio this weekend so I can check things out there...don't want to have to take fish that far again if I can avoid it though...

Good to know that the 10 gal can work as a temporary fix if I have an emergency...thanks! If that situation comes about, the goal would be to put the pair in a 20...preferably a 20L if I could find one and get a place set up for it.

Thanks -- *crosses fingers* so far so good!