Bill

Hi

I lost my two male GBRs to disease, and I'm thinking of getting some new rams (either blue or Bolivian). I've heard that the ideal stocking ratio is 1 male to 2 or more females, and that rams are social fish that tend to fight among themselves; but how social are they? I ask because I'm wondering whether if i got just one male ram he would be lonely by himself and hide a lot. Getting 3 rams (particularly Bolivians) would be pretty expensive and take up a lot of space in my tank.

I'm definitely leaning towards Bolivians rather than blues at the moment, because my pH is high (7.6) and my water is fairly hard, and Bolivians are supposed to be a lot less sensitive than blues. I'm still not confident that it was only the disease that killed my rams before, I think they probably weren't that happy in my tank, even though I kept nitrates to below 20 and there were plenty of hiding spaces. The longest that one of them lives was about a month. Also, although I find Bolivians slightly less stunning than blues (and they're bigger) they are about half the price of a blue in my LFS. I really don't want to lose such expensive fish again (the blues were £4.95/ about $10US each).

Any ideas? Would one Bolivian be happy by himself?

Cheers folks

~Bill

Dino

Bolivians should be ok in 7.6.
They are not really schoolers and one would be fine by himself/herself.

Allie

I found Bolivians less sketchy than my 3 Long fin GBR I had. They were hiding all the time....the single Bolivian came out all the time. You'd think he'd be the nervous one being alone & all.

lili70

I have two girls and there is some chasing away, territory stuff. I don't think they need a school.
But they are social with humans. No fear for this fish GBR. They bit my finger like the betta girls . They seem to be smart too. Never hidding. My PH is 8 ...
L

Bill

Thanks for the quick replies, guys That's fantastic news - especially that they can do so well in high pH. I'll get one male. My LFS has a lot of really nice-looking ones.

Thanks again!

~Bill

lili70

For Bill:

Bill

Thanls lili! That is a very nice-looking ram. Kinda makes me want to get GBRs again rather than a Bolivian... but I think the hardier option is probably safest. It's encouraging to hear that your GBRs are doing fine in 8.0, though

Bill

I went to the LFS today, contemplating getting a Bolivian... then I looked at them. Wow! Really really nice fish... I ummed and aahed about how many to get, and I ended up with three (2 females, 1 male I think). they're accilmating as I type

lili70

Pics please, Bill !
L

capekate

Hi Bill
sorry to hear that you lost your GBRs. They were gorgeous! I started out with three GBRs in Oct. and have one left. he is a hardy one and lives with the rainbows and discus. He is by himself with no other of his own kind and seems to be just fine, showing nice coloring. It doesnt seem to bother him that he is alone tho, but it bothers me and when I find the chance to get more of his own kind, I will be adding them to the tank. Oh btw my Ph is 6.4 in that tank.
Good luck with your bolivians.. Please... photos!!!


~ kate

Bill

HHaha, sorry guys, no photos until Satruday or Sunday... my dad has the camera with him in Rome at the moment. The Bolivians are doing fine. After having had a really good look at them, I'm pretty sure at least one of them is a female.

capekate

kewl ! Glad to hear they are doing great!

~ kate

Bill

Thanks kate

This morning I saw two of the rams doing the "lip-locking" thing - quite cool to watch. One of them has established territory at the left of the tank, the other at the right, and they battle each other off if they cross that line. So those two are males, right? The one that I think is a female spends her time hiding under an anubias on the right side of the tank. Will 2 males:1 female be an okay ratio in the long run, or would it be better to add an extra female or two to break up aggression? The tank is big, and there are lots of places to hide/break lines of sight, so aggression should be kept to a minimum, but I'd prefer it if the female wasn't hiding all the time. But I suppose I've only had them for a couple of days, maybe she'll get more confident

capekate

Good morning Bill
The two males liplocking is an aggression thing going on for sure. they must be competing over the one female or just sizing each other for 'king of the mountain'. If you are able to, I would add another female or two, to the group. Tho it wont stop the aggression between the two males, it will give the lone female a tankmate, a buddy to hang with.

~ kate

Bill

Another female it is, then Thanks for the advice!

capekate

Also, I was thinking about those two males. If they are constantly fighting, one of them, the weaker is going to get sick or hurt. I think if I were in the same situation, along with getting another female ( or two) I would also add one more male. At least between three males, the fighting could be spread out and not always concentrated on just two. Giving one of the males a rest period from being picked on. Does that make sense?
~ kate

Bill

I'm going to leave it for a couple of weeks to see how they turn out. I see where you're coming from, but the males aren't constantly fighting, I only saw them liplock once - they just flare at each other when they see each other (which isn't that often thanks to all the bogwood/slate/plants). One of them chases after the female, though, and tries to nip her - although not very actively, and again only when he sees her. It's more the female I'm worried about getting injured.

capekate

I hope it all turns out well for you and the fish and that they all start to calm down in the long run. If it doesnt, you can always add more, or another female like you thought of doing.

~ kate

Bill

Here are a couple of photos.

This is the ram that I thought was a female, now I'm starting to think that it's probably a male like the other two. They are fighting a lot less now, anyway - and they seem to be very healthy!




~Bill

capekate

Great Photos! Your bolivian looks so healthy...
If the top fin is any indication, by the photos it doesnt look like the black spikes are taller than the rest of the fin. Can it be a female? Ive never had bolivians so I really cannot say. But either way... it sure is a pretty one!

Congratulations!
~ kate

Bill

OK, some more observations - the "female" yesterday liplocked with one of the "males" and won! Do both males and females do the liplockin' thing? Also, when "she" is flaring, the top fin looks just as long as on the males. "Her" fin extensions are shorter, but not much.... also "she" lacks the magenta patch that females are supposed to have. I think that "she" might be male after all, but "she" still looks somehow different from the other two.

Anyway, they aren't fighting too much, and sometimes they even seem to be companions. I guess that since there are three of them, the aggression is spread out - there certainly doesn't seem to be a dominant one, since I've seen the "female" be chased off by a "male" and then later face that same fish down.