mirciulie

I found a new place for my 2 goldfish to live in. I currently have a 50Gal tropical tank, and still have the 2 comet goldies that I started with (reason why I've got into fish keeping...). They need to go due to the water being to warm for them, and they're getting big and messy...

My inlaws have a pond which they just relined it, and got some water in. I'm not sure how big it is, but I'm thinking 200+ gallons.

I've learned alot here (THANKS EVERYBODY) about water params, nitrogen cycle, plants.... THe question is, does everything applies the same to ponds? I read that they need to be at least 3' deep, get 6 hrs of sun or more. How about filtration? I know that pond has a pump that brings the water on a little waterfall, more like running on rocks for 2 ft then drops a foot into the water surface. Due they have filters specially made for ponds? WHat's a good brand or set up?

Yeah, the filter is my main question.

Also, is goldfish good to stay in the water in winter too? It never freezes here in the Pacific NW, even less in an inground pond.

sirdarksol

Yes, there will need to be a filter of sorts. With two goldfish, presuming they aren't opposite sex and don't breed, they could probably get away with getting some decorations to house beneficial bacteria and setting them in front of the waterfall's output. Drs Foster and Smith sell something that looks like sheets of felt that have been cut about 3/4 across so that they look like combs. You anchor the solid end, and the floating ends wave in the water like grass. They are made for bio media. Unfortunately, I can't find a link right now.
If they want more fish eventually, or if they just want to be sure, they could always add a canister filter (make sure it's made for ponds. The housings are more weather resistant). I don't know about brands of canisters.

And yes, goldfish can winter over as long as the pond doesn't freeze to the bottom. If the pond ever freezes over, it's a good idea to have a floating de-icer or even just leave a ball floating in the pond in order to allow for gas exchange. The whole surface doesn't need to be open, just a small space. If the pond surface freezes at all, they don't need to be fed (maybe a little bit during a thaw, but not much). Their bodies slow down during winter to allow them to survive CO2 buildup and lack of food. They usually nibble on detritus over the winter (many people in MN just completely ignore their ponds over the winter and when the water thaws, usually find that their fish have survived the winter).

mirciulie

Thanks Sirdaskol.

Just as I thought, they need a filter. I know that my bro in law will get koi in there eventually, so they need a canister filter. I saw some at the site you mention that are rated at 750/1500 or even more gph.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...4&pcatid=12244


I think the 1500gph (2500 model) it's the best for them, even though it might be overkill, but for 20 bucks more why not?

Also, they have some rocks on the liner already, I'll might tell them to have cover the whole bottom with more rocks, for aestetichs and media for bacteria also. YOur ideea sounds interesting too, I'll look into it.

The bigger problem that I just remember is having the neighbors cats and racoons coming over for free fish! They'll have to get an electric wire on top of their fence...


And here in W Oregon we don't get "real" winters. I wear shorts year round. It gets bellow freezing at night, but durring the day it's 40, or 50s. This winter it's been paticularly cold, meaning that we got many days in mid 30s and even staying bellow freezing all day long. Boy, we need a lot of global warming...

Didn't know that goldfish are that hardy, but giving that are a sort of carp, it explains it....

Thanks alot for advice.

sirdarksol

Should be fine with everything.

As far as hunting goes, how quickly does the pond drop off? Raccoons like wading while they're hunting, and if the pond goes immediately to 2' deep, they'll have severe problems catching anything. Cats are a bit better at fishing from the edge, though. I've got a book on pond building. I'll see what it says about deterring predators. They've got some pretty good, unobtrusive ideas.

mirciulie

Wow, there's some science behind this too?

The pond is a bean like shape (looking for above). It's shallow on one end (less then a ft) then it gradually slopes to 2 ft or so. I think they can add more water into it right now, to make it deeper. There's gonna be no more mods (digging) in there. we'll go with what we have, add the electric wire on top of the fence and see what's going on. I would like to measure the volume of water, but it's kinda hard, due to irregular shape and slope. Easiest way would of been to measure to gals/min of water when they fill it up and go from there, but it's too late now. The "steps" on the pound sounds good, didn't even know the racoons don't like to go in, just hunt from the shallow. I'll work my my inlaws to convince 'em on a good pond filter, then we'll see. I know they're ready to get the electric wire already, had to many racoon encounters

sirdarksol

This kind of pond is the ultimate feeding hole for predators.
I'm not home right now, so I don't have access to the book. I wouldn't count on any large-scale attempts to keep raccoons out of the yard. They're smart little buggers and will probably find ways past any fence, like jumping from trees, climbing the house and crawling into the backyard from there, etc...

mirciulie

Wow, I like your statement: The Ultimate Feeding hole for predators!

Looks like it's gunna be an uphill batle here. I'll try to visit my inlaws this weekend I'll asses the batlefield and bring a report


For real, gotta see exactly what is there to do. I don't wanna have a pond just for the sake of feeding the locals!

sirdarksol

There are always ways around it. I think one of the big suggestions is creating floating protection for the fish. Goldfish and koi are smart, and will learn to recognize the difference between humans and predators, presuming they survive their first couple of brushes with the predators.

susitna-flower

I've researched ponds for years, one of the best companies I have found for supplies, ideas and just all around good information is:

www.aquascapeinc.com They have good quality filters, pumps, and although they are a wholesale company, should be able to direct you to businesses in your area that carry their products.

One problem you have not addressed yet in this post is growth of algae in a pond. Even without fish a pond will grow algae, you need to create just as effecient a biological filter in a pond as you do an aquarium. The one advantage of being outdoors is that you can plant your pond and help use nitrates, and I would suggest your looking into "barley straw mats" as part of the filtration, which is suppose to help keep the algae down.

mirciulie

SIRDARKSOL,

I'm thinking on making one big dropoff at about the middle of the pond, where the water would go from 1 ft to 3 ft. Is that what you were talking about, in making the predator's life alot harder to get to the fishes? I hope that they're smart enough to learn quick to retreat to the deep end when danger arrives.

That's the easiest (will see about that) and most efficient way on making that pond a hard target for racoons.

Please let me know, before I'll start digging.

Thx, Mike

sirdarksol

Alright, raccoons are considered, according to Complete Guide to Water Gardens, to be public enemy #1 to fish. To avoid them, it says to "design fishponds with steeply vertical sides and no shallow plant ledges. In addition, plant the perimeter thickly with grasses and other dense marginal plants." The idea is to deny raccoons a graceful entry to the pond. In addition, your parents can call the local DNR or animal control. They should be able to give some ideas on how to deal with raccoons.
One thought that I had is to make a retaining wall (maybe a foot tall) around the shallow end of the pond. I've seen these done and they can be very beautiful. The practical effect would be to force the raccoon to drop into the pond rather than wade in.


Herons (if you've got them in your area) can be deterred by fishing line strung 6" off the ground all the way around the pond. They like wading into the water, and this will confound them.

Kingfishers (again, if you have them in your area) need a high perch (10' or more?) to dive from. Keep these away from your pond if you can.

Also, watch out for turtles and snakes. I've seen a small snapping turtle devastate a small "pond" filled with sunnies and walleyes in one night.

mirciulie

HEre's some pics that I took today. As you can see they have a wall that's pretty tall, but also a bridge going over the midle of the pond, and I think that's the place that the racoons are dropping in from. I took the pic from the shallow end. Also, their pond it's leaking . More things to think about.

Let me know what do you think about their sittuation.

Attached Images

	pond 01.jpg (239.3 KB, 7 views)
	pond 02.jpg (246.4 KB, 6 views)
	pond 03.jpg (317.8 KB, 3 views)

mirciulie

Just added the pics, finally. I tried sending them from my inlaws right after I took them, but they were too big, and had to go. So, I finally had time at home to do it.

Hope you can give me some good advice, based on what I've provided.

Cheers,

Mike

sirdarksol

Raccoons shouldn't like anything about that pond. They shouldn't like dropping from the bridge, in particular. They prefer hunting from the shore. However, it may be that the water is currently shallow enough that they feel comfortable dropping in. Once the leak is found/fixed, they may want to fill it more and see if they still have nocturnal visitors. Though raccoons can swim, they don't generally hunt while doing so. If the water comes to chest height on a 'coon, it might stop hunting in the area.

mirciulie

That's good news then. They just gotta figure out the leak. I know for sure that the pipes that run underground from the pump to the fountain (from one end to the other) are shot, so they need to be redone completly. As long as the liner is not leaking they should be good.

I'll see what we can get done, and off they go... My brother in law keeps trowing money at it, but he's too lazy to research and he's just wasting it. It would make a great spot for the backyard, and you can walk over that little bridge and enjoy it. Ah, just remembered to make sure I'll bring my Chemical kit with me to check the water parmeters. I'm sure the ammonia is high, water looked kinda hazy when I was there last week.

Thx for the quick answers

mirciulie

I gave the 2 goldfish to my father in law about 2 weeks ago. He got them in, and a couple days later he told me their gone . I thought the cat got them.

But I went over today and found out that they're safe, hidding under the bridge. The water level is very high (almost to the top) and it stayed like that for weeks, so no leaks. Only the underground return pipe is broken, so as long as they don't run that they're good.

Now, by bro in law is working on a DIY filter. I told him to burry a garden hose from the place where the filter is gonna be all the way to the water fountain on the other end. The filter itself is basicaly a detergent bucket with lid(washed very well). He has a pump, not sure where from, but it's not waterproof at all. THe motor is exposed (you can see the windings and magnets....) He knows what he's doing. I think he'll have it pump the water on top of the bucket, where it goes to a couple sponges. And there's a pond supply store very close to him. I think he should get some filter media from there and get it on the bottom of the bucket. He should get some limestone balls, or whatever shape they come, right? What other kinda of media should he use?

I think is the same way this filter works:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...32&pcatid=5332

He's also making an UV filter, don't know what he's got into it yet. I just told him to get the bio filter going first. THe water looked kinda cloudy. I forgot to bring the test Kit with me again , actually I wasn't planning on getting to their place....

So, things are getting togheter, I should plan to get to his place this weekend and help him out.

Rainsong

My step-dad dug his own pond in the backyard and lined it. I think it's a good 3ft or more deep, and it's pretty much a straight drop. Between the dogs and the depth, the fish are fine!

He runs a fountain in it (pump runs to it, I think, then pumps the water out). It circulates it and keeps a nice open spot even in winter when the top ices. We're in Western Oregon too, but we've gotten some COLD weather here because we're in a weird spot. We're about 1 hour west of Salem, and a 1/2 hour south of McMinnville. The goldfish were all feeders- and pretty much tossed in and left to their own devices aside from some flake food when I could. Now they're big and happy!

Have WAY too much algae in there, though. Icky. I'm trying to talk my mother into an above-ground tub to take them with- my step dad loved his pond, but they've gone and moved... I hate leaving those poor fish!

We've got a UV filter on the pond- my mother got it to try to help with the algae. Didn't do a thing, but the water us nice and clear now.