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Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Lore Newbie
 
Starting a pond

Hey, I was thinking of starting a pond at my house, and i was wondering what some of the requirements were. I live in the Northeastern US so it goes below freezing here during the winter, would this have any affect on fish living in the pond? Also, I'm trying to do this using as little money as possible.
Thanks
Electronicyouth is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Hi electricyouth! welcome to fishlore if you havent yet been welcomed
A couple members have ponds, and have succesfully kept it for some years. IMO, i would start of with goldfish. They tend to do really good in ponds instead of tanks, and usually do ok in cold weather(freezing water). AS long as the pond doesnt freeze all the way to the bottom, they'll be ok. You could maybe start off with one of those big pond tubs they sell at Home Depot in the landscaping section. If that isnt possible, you could start off with some canvas and make your pond look the wy you want to instead of buying a pre-shaped one. Starting a pond isnt so hard, but getting the filtration going is sometimes hard. I have heard of people using an underwater pond and adding a waterfall. The pump gushes water up on a tube that goes to the section of the waterfall and creates circulation, making it sort of a biological filtration. I personally dont know much about ponds, but have kept them and struggled. I personally think fish tanks better but thats just me
good luck!
tony
Tony G. is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Lore Newbie
 
Oh okay, for some reason I thought it would be a lot harder. Thanks a lot
Electronicyouth is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electronicyouth View Post
Oh okay, for some reason I thought it would be a lot harder. Thanks a lot
lol wait for some other members to come allong they will guide you better than me haha
it takes a lot of time but in the end its worth it...
send a message to gremlin, she has a pond and its veryyy cool
Tony G. is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
I also recommend some really hardy live plants, so if the water freezes over the live plants would help keep the oxygen levels up atleast enough to let the fish breathe. Also make sure you would have the surface agitated by the filter so that adequate gas exchange could happen if the water freezes. Also how big is your pond? If its really large you might want to consider some koi. Koi tend to be hardier than goldfish and can live a really long time. Koi can live over 100+ years if kept in good conditions! I had a friend who's great grandfather had a koi, he sadly died a couple years after that. Then my friends grandfather has the koi. He says once he dies he'll pass it on. Right now it's around 20-30 years old! You should probably keep a heater just to make sure the water temperate is stabilized atleast to keep it from dropping around 10-20 F a day. Trust me ponds can change temperature really fast, especially where you live.
Hope I helped
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
i have a 100 gallon pond. it is the type with the hard liner. the most amount of ice i have had on my pond was 6 inchs and all the fish survived. For fish i bought 10 feeder goldfish and 20 rosyminnows. I have lost a couple of fish, all the minnows, the goldfish ate them all, one goldfish got eaten by a racoon, and one jumped to its death
Gouramiguy17 is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouramiguy17 View Post
i have a 100 gallon pond. it is the type with the hard liner. the most amount of ice i have had on my pond was 6 inchs and all the fish survived. For fish i bought 10 feeder goldfish and 20 rosyminnows. I have lost a couple of fish, all the minnows, the goldfish ate them all, one goldfish got eaten by a racoon, and one jumped to its death
I really don't recommend feeder goldfish for a pond. They were bred to be fed to larger carnivorous fish and many are ill. Forget about the koi, your pond is to small. They need atleast 1000 gallons because of their huge size. Maybe try a couple common goldfish at first. Also maybe a common pleco would work too. Some form of netting over the top of the pond will prevent coons and birds from getting to your fish. It will prevent fish from jumping all the way out of the pond too. But I want to look into one thing. Goldfish aren't known jumpers. There could be a reason he jumped. Do you do water changes every couple weeks? Is it cycled? Is it filtered? Is there surface of the water agitated enough? If it's not he could have been jumping to try to get oxygen, or the water was to dirty, but I would need water parameters to clear things up. Also if you get a pleco you need to do water changes alot more because goldfish give off ammonia through there gills and after a while this will build up and start to kill your pleco. Also did you add your fish all at once? If you did you probably had a bacterial bloom because the biological filtration didn't have time to catch up with the amount of fish.

Assuming you have a filter.
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
i have a filter and i have a ton of plants(lilly pads,cattails, and some other type of plant) the pond stays pretty cool because it is in the ground. I have the water return set up so the water falls a good foot to help with areation

Last edited by Gouramiguy17; July 31st, 2009 at 03:42 PM. Reason: spelling error
Gouramiguy17 is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10gallonmadness View Post
Also if you get a pleco you need to do water changes alot more because goldfish give off ammonia through there gills and after a while this will build up and start to kill your pleco. .
I did not know this. Why and how??
CHoffman is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouramiguy17 View Post
i have a filter and i have a ton of plants(lilly pads,cattails, and some other type of plant) the pond stays pretty cool because it is in the ground. I have the water return set up so the water falls a good foot to help with areation
Ok. Thanks, but I'm just curious what kind of filter do you have?
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHoffman View Post
I did not know this. Why and how??
To be honest I really don't know how or why they give off ammonia. I think not having a stomach has something to do with it though.
.
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
idk i bought it from a garden center and im not going to tear apart the filter box to find out
Gouramiguy17 is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10gallonmadness View Post
To be honest I really don't know how or why they give off ammonia. I think not having a stomach has something to do with it though.
.
Ok. Googled it. Didn't come up with anything other then They are big waste producers and therefore waste turns into ammonia (which is every fish). Nothing about it coming out of their gills. I just found it to be really odd. Ammonia, usually burns the gills of fish..hmmm..I guess I'll keep looking or if anyone else knows please chime in.
CHoffman is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
owww that would hurt
Gouramiguy17 is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHoffman View Post
Ok. Googled it. Didn't come up with anything other then They are big waste producers and therefore waste turns into ammonia (which is every fish). Nothing about it coming out of their gills. I just found it to be really odd. Ammonia, usually burns the gills of fish..hmmm..I guess I'll keep looking or if anyone else knows please chime in.
Oh lol I didn't mean like like that. I was exaggerating. I meant that they produce so much waste it's like ammonia comings out there gills.
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Sorry 'bout the misunderstanding.
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old July 31st, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
i just toss the plants on the bottom of the pond for the winter
Gouramiguy17 is offline  
Old August 1st, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10gallonmadness View Post
Oh lol I didn't mean like like that. I was exaggerating. I meant that they produce so much waste it's like ammonia comings out there gills.

Ok..See I'm naive. I was thinking either two things. That they really did put out ammonia and I was bound to find out why I didn't know this already or two that they didn't really but you thought they did..lol..Thanks for clearing it up though..
CHoffman is offline  
Old August 2nd, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
I have had a pond for quite a while. You have basically two options for the main pond - a hard liner or tub or whatever or a flexible liner. Mine is a preformed that holds approx 180 gallons. Preformed are nice because they are usually a bit sturdier. The down side is that you don't have the flexibility of designing your own shape around the space you have. With the liner, you would need to figure out the edging or some other way to secure the top edge of the liner. My sister used a liner for her pond and used decorative block to hold up the edge.

You will also need to decide if you want substrate or not. My pond is bare bottom - it makes it easier to rake the debris out of the bottom. My sister's pond has large river rock in the bottom to anchor her lilies. I just put the lily root in a plastic mesh bag with a couple of rocks to weight it down.

As for size, I would go as large as you have room for. It is better to start with a larger size than have to upgrade later. I wish I had more room to make a larger pond. I have already upped the size of mine as much as I can in the space I have available. (and I still wish it were bigger!)

The regular feeder goldfish are fine. Just be very picky about the ones you buy. Sit and watch them for at least 30 minutes and insist on the ones YOU choose. Don't settle for the ones the employees catch for you unless they are the ones you chose. When I was buying mine, I actually had an employee swipe the net through the group and dump it in the box saying "here you go". I said NO. I want THAT one and THAT one, not these ones... You may have to be a bit insistent, but it will pay off. All of my goldfish started out as feeder fish from WalMart and PetsMart. I did lose a few of them, but mostly they have survived. If you really watch them, and make sure they have no signs of disease, you should be fine. Don't pick them just because you like the coloring or the tail or the cute face - you really need to be picky healthwise. When you bring them home, quarantine them for at least a couple of days. I usually dosed with melafix when I added new fish - just as a precaution. The main trouble I had was watching for ICH. I always keep some ich attack on hand so I can dose as soon as I see it.

Other Fish: I would not recommend a common pleco unless you plan to bring it inside during the winter. I have two sailfin plecos in my pond. They do fine in the summer, but I bring them in the house for the winter. They do not do well when the temp stays below 72* farenheit. You may want to throw in some white cloud mountain minnows. I have not found any around here, so I don't have any experience with them. I do have mosquito fish in my pond. They may do fine in yours as long as they get some full sun part of the day. If they are completely shaded all day long, they will not survive. I am experimenting with American Flag Fish this summer and so far they seem to be doing fine. They feed on algae, as well as on small insect larvae so they would be good scavenger/clean up fish. They are also quite pretty. Oh, and I also have a chinese algae eater in my pond that comes in during the winter.

In the colder areas, you would need to have your pond deep enough that most of it will stay unfrozen. The deeper water will also maintain a more stable temperature. The goldfish will be fine year round, just make sure that you keep a small area open for the gas exchange. Otherwise your fish could die from oxygen starvation.

Plants: Google water plants native to your area so you can get an idea of what plants would do well in your area. Pond lilies, water hyacinth, and water lettuce are all good floating plants that will help to provide cover for your fish so they can hide from predators. They will also help to shade your pond so your fish don't get sunburned (yes it is possible for a fish to get sunburned - mine did). I haven't had any luck with underwater plants, my fish eat them all. Water hyacinth and water lettuce are illegal in my area, so I just have pond lilies.

Filter: Don't skimp on your filter. A good external pressurized filter with a uv bulb is a good investment. Figure the gallons in your pond, then add extra for a waterfall if you want. You should also add extra if you want more fish, especially since goldfish are a very dirty fish. Then get a filter that can handle more than the volume of your pond. For example: 200 gallon pond + 20 gallons for waterfall and stream + 80 for lots of goldies = 300 gallons so get a filter that is rated for at least 300 gallons, preferably 400-500 gallons.

Pump, same basic rules as the filter. Get one that will handle more than the size of your pond. It won't have to work as hard, and you will be able to add additional water features with out having to change the pump. It is also a good idea to have a back up pump in case something happens to your main pump.

My pond is set up so the pump sits in the bottom of the pond and pumps water to the external pressure filter which then returns to the pond via two waterfalls. It does not freeze too much here, so I don't need to worry about the tubing freezing. You may need to bury your tubing or wrap it with insulation or something to protect it from freezing in the winter. Having a waterfall should help to keep the pond from freezing over. The waterfall will agitate the water where it falls into the pond and moving water does not freeze as easily as still water.

You should also have:
A pond thermometer to monitor the temperature of the pond.
A skimmer net to get the leaves and debris out of your pond (especially after a wind storm).
A test kit - yes, even though it is not an aquarium, you should still test for ammonia and such.
Two (yes two) fish nets - one with a fine mesh for the smaller fish, and a larger one for your goldfish as they grow. For my large net, I got the hex pond net from Drs Foster & Smith. It is not a very deep net, but it allows me to scoop under the fish and hold them just under the water, in the net, so I can inspect any that may look injured or sick.
Melafix - a good all around medication - wonderful for injuries
Ich Attack - Ich is common with feeder goldfish, so it is a good idea to have some on hand when you add new fish.

Food - I use a floating pellet. It stays on top of the water longer so the fish have a chance to finish it all - if there is left over, you can use your net to fish it out and dry it to use the next day. This helps to keep the pond that much cleaner. No rotting food in the bottom of the pond. The goldfish will also eat the algae that grows on the sides of the pond, and will nibble at the plants you put in. I usually have enough algae/moss growing in my pond that I don't have to feed my goldfish that often. This year, my two plecos are much bigger and eating more, and the flagfish are moss/algae eaters also, so I am having to feed more often. That's okay though, I kind of like it when the goldies swim through my fingers and nibble on the back of my hand when I feed them.

Well, I think I covered most of the basics. If you have any other questions, ask away. Someone here is bound to have the answers. Oh, and as for doing a pond as cheap as possible - it is better to spend a little more at the beginning to start right than to end up spending more later to try to fix things. Figure out exactly what you want the pond to be, plan it out, allow for expansion, then get what you need to make it happen. The only money I have put into my pond for last several years has been for food (and the electricity to run the pump/filter, and the water to fill it up when it evaporates).

So, here are some pics of my pond and fish - I put my fish in a 2.5 gallon to get pics of them from the side since my camera is not waterproof...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pond 08 25 08 second.JPG (211.7 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg 06-18-08_pond right rock wall.JPG (96.0 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg my pond 05 02 09 pic 7.JPG (224.2 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg 10-23-07_goldfish.JPG (54.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0038.JPG (218.8 KB, 37 views)
gremlin is offline  
Old August 2nd, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHoffman View Post

Ok..See I'm naive. I was thinking either two things. That they really did put out ammonia and I was bound to find out why I didn't know this already or two that they didn't really but you thought they did..lol..Thanks for clearing it up though..
No problem lol. Gremlin pretty much explained everything you need to know right now. Good Luck!
10gallonmadness is offline  
Old August 2nd, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
great job! it looks great...
rileyrk190 is offline  
Old August 10th, 2009  
Fish Master
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHoffman View Post
Ok. Googled it. Didn't come up with anything other then They are big waste producers and therefore waste turns into ammonia (which is every fish). Nothing about it coming out of their gills. I just found it to be really odd. Ammonia, usually burns the gills of fish..hmmm..I guess I'll keep looking or if anyone else knows please chime in.
Actually all fish release ammonia out of there gills. Here's how it works.
Similar to us the fishes body transports Nitrogenous waste (ammonia for them Urea for us) around the body within the blood. Our bodies filter this waste out in our kidneys and it drains to our bladder where eventually we get rid of it. For fish however they've developed a less energy intensive method (since water conservation isn't a concern for aquatic creatures). Fish rely mostly on diffusion to carry the relatively high concentration of ammonia out of their blood and across the gill membrane to be excreted into the water. Since in nature fish live in such a large body of water the relative levels of ammonia that surrounds them is 0, which means that the ammonia concentration within their bodies remains very low. However in aquaria this isn't always the case.
What happens in our aquariums with the (ammonia burn) that we see is that the consentration of ammonia in the surrounding water is too high for passive diffusion to work properly. And while fish may have cells which activly transport ammonia out this system doesn't work effectively. As the ammonia concentration in the water rises so does the consentration in the blood. Ammonia poisoning is a complecated process but basically since ammonia is toxic it can cause sever cell damage within the fish (remember blood is carried everywhere and ammonia is carried within the blood). The effects of ammonia on the outside of the body are the symptoms that we usually see. The ammonia destroys the fragile gill cells (there's only 1 or two layers of cells seperating the fishes blood from the water), and destroys the fish's skins cells as well. It can also damge the eyes.

Hope that I didn't get to lectury in that explination. I was doing some research on ammonia poisoning etc for a paper last year. I can look for the links if you like.
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