rileyrk190

Well, my dad won this waterfall rock thing in a golf tournament, and it would look really cool if it ran into a pond. I was thinking of buying a small plastic pond and setting it up for my mom for her birthday. I was just wondering what fish besides koi would be suitable in a pond? I am looking for a small fish that would be able to tolerate a pond, so that i could house them properly in the winter. Would white cloud minnows work? How about guppies? Also how do you keep a stable temperature in a pond?

Chief_waterchanger

Guppies would not do well in New York temperatures in the winter, sorry.

Doesn't it get cold enough up there in the winter for the pond to freeze? I don't know of any commonly kept fish that could tolerate water as it begins to freeze or does freeze. Update us, if you will, as to just how cold it gets there, the gallonage of a pond that would be in your price range, and whether or not you would want to bear the cost of putting a heater in it.

sirdarksol

Koi, goldfish, and minnows (I think this includes White Clouds) all can survive water that is freezing as long as it doesn't freeze to the bottom. I live in MN, and we've got some of the coldest winters of the lower 48. I know people who just toss a ball in their pond (deeper ponds, a couple of feet at least) to keep the top of the ice from exploding (shockwaves can kill the fish), and always have more koi the next year. One woman I know actually just ignored her pond and had more koi the next year.
However, the smaller ponds have the potential to freeze to the bottom. It would be good to get a heater for the pond.
As far as stable temp, you don't need to. Temperate fish (the only kind of fish you'll be able to add to an outdoor pond in NY) actually don't like a super-stable temperature. The size of the body of water will keep the temp from fluctuating too quickly.

Chief_waterchanger

White cloud mountain minnows are a temperate fish from China. However, they do not do especially well below 50 degrees farenheit. Native minnows would probably do just fine in that situation, but most of the commonly available ones are nothing more than shiny silver fish that would keep the mosquitoes from overwhelming the pond with larvae.

The bigger the body of water and the deeper the pond is the better the fish would do. You can call the agricultural extension department to find out what your freeze line is. Freeze line is the depth at which the ground freezes solid. In Tennessee we have a 36 inch deep pond, with a freeze line of 18 inches (historical record depth.) Our pond is approximately 5000 gallons, and in the 21 years its been set up has never froze more than 4 inches deep. (So 32 inches of free room for the koi in there to swim.)

rileyrk190

sorry, i should have specified that i didnt intend for the fish to be out there all winter, i just meant i cant house large fish (koi) inside for the winter months, not to mention my pond is WAY too small for them anyway. Smaller fish would be more doable, and i have the proper tanks for them during the winter. My dad and I installed it today. It is only a small round one with a waterfall attachment. The big basin itself is 20 gallons, and the waterfall is about three more..so 23 gallons total. Would this be suitable for one goldfish, and a couple pond snails, or is it too small for a gold fish? Other than that what fish would be fine?

Chief_waterchanger

One goldfish and snails would be alright in the 20g or so. (Remember to do waterchanges on a pond that small just as often as you would with a tank.) You seem to know what you are doing and talking about pretty well. 20g is the smallest a single goldfish should be put into, but that should do fine with weekly 30-50% waterchanges.

When you re-house them indoors in the winter make sure to give it atleast 20 gallons and it won't really make much of a difference to the fish.

Again, you seem to have done your homework and know what you are doing without wanting to overstock, congrats.

rileyrk190

Thanks..once it cycles i will head to my LFS. i scraped my 55g filter off and threw all the good stuff in the pond...so hopefully it wont take too long to cycle.

Shawnie

goodluck..and no it shouldnt take that long with already seeded filter media..can you get pics?? I want a pond and would love to see your pics

rileyrk190

Sure i will take pics tomorrow. I plan on getting some more accent plants for the pond to surprise my mom (for her birthday), since i really didnt get anything to do with the pond (my dad got it all). I am gonna build the canister filter tomorrow too. I figure it came with a pump, so all i have to do in find a suitable container and split the water intake hose, and attach. Hopefully the pump will have enough power to draw it through the can. I'll also pick up a couple pond snails, and maybe the goldfish since i have an empty cycled tank inside whch it can stay in for a few days. Luckiy, we live on a dried river bed, so rounded landscaping rocks were FREE. We got most just by digging the hole..lol. Boy what a pain that was!!

Shawnie

awesome..cant wait to see it!!

rileyrk190

Sorry, i didnt get to pictures today because we had a tornado watch, and severe thunderstorms all day. The humidity was unbearable too. Hopefully tomorrow will be more productive..

rileyrk190

I posted some pictures under the freshwater fish and tank forum section, of the pond.

Awsome22

I wish I could get a pond..... but i dont think the fishies would fair well in a Maine winter...

rileyrk190

well, i'm bringing mine inside for the winter. I live in upstate NY, its not much better..

betta-cat

Just a little note of caution, keep an eye on the summer temps of the 20g pond. Goldies don't like it when it gets too warm, so if the pond is in full sunlight without any shade, could it overheat? I lost a few goldfish when I brought them indoors for the winter, only to suffer a hot spell in October. I couldn't keep them cool enough upstairs. Now, I overwinter my fish downstairs, where it keeps a good 60F or so.

betta-cat

Loved your pix! I just had a chance to look for them. I also just noticed that there is a good thread about temps further down in this forum. Enjoy your pond! Mom is lucky!

rileyrk190

we had the gold fish in the pond all summer and all was and is well. It is inside now..it grew from the size of a dime to the sizeof a credit card..lol

betta-cat

Was your first fish a feeder fish? Except for my shubunkin, all my other goldies started from feeder fish. Over the years, I kept the best of the babies and now have a lovely variety of colours. My largest ones are about 8" long. What my mother couldn't understand was the lengths I would go to to keep the feeder fish alive and healthy. So my fish, which originally cost a few dollars at the most in total, deserved a lovely and strong pump, a carefully planned home-made filter system, a waterfall, rocks, plants, indoor quarters, treatments for fin rot (not any more, I'm much more careful) etc etc ..... gotta love them!

rileyrk190

Don't worry, my mom wonders the same thing, so i argue that it's my money, and if i want to spend it on my animals to make them happy i will..lol.no this is a red capped oranda gold fish. My biggest fear is that a cat will get him while he is in the pond outside, especially when he gets larger.

gremlin

He will actually have a better chance of survival as he grows bigger. I've lost several goldfish to cats over the years. I had one orange female that had a lump on her side from where a cat's claw made a little hole. I called her scar. My one female shubunkin had a good sized bite taken out of her last January. She was large enough that the cat couldn't hang on to her when she started to flip and she made it back into the pond. (I am assuming as I was not out there when it happened). When I fed them the next morning, she wouldn't come up to eat so I caught her to see what was wrong and saw the hole. There were also wet cat paw prints on the wall around the pond. She is all healed up now and you can't even tell where the hole was. Her coloring is a bit different there, but that is all.

Attached Images

	catbit fish 01-05-08 left side pic 2.JPG (55.5 KB, 16 views)
	cat bit fish healed 11-25-08 left side.JPG (151.7 KB, 16 views)

fishlover78

she has healed pretty well Gremlin!

gremlin

Oh yeah. I was glad cause she is my only shubunkin!

TedsTank

White Cloud mountain fish are hardy or worth a try....I have seen them get thru the winters here in Maryland...but if too severe they won't make it.