armadillo

Hi everyone. Provided common plecos' growth is somewhat stunted by limited tank size, would it be cruel to take advantage of that fact and, well, hope that indeed his growth is stunted so he doesn't become uncomfortable? This is purely a theoretical question as my plecos are still tiny, but I need to start thinking about this. Right now, they're in a 72L tank. 2 of them are 5cm (2x 2"?) and one is 3om (1.3"). The tank is 30cm high, 30cm wide and 80cm long.

Luniyn

Has nothing to do with morals (ok well it does but that aside), it has to do with their life spans. Even though their outside bodies slow in growth, their insides do not. Their internal organs will actually crowd themselves until they fail. It will shorten their life spans considerably. Now that's not to say that sometimes fish don't reach their potential wild grown sizes, but that fact aside, shoehorning them into a tank too small for them will lead to them not being with you as long as they could be.

Gunnie

It's also a slow painful death, so in my opinion, yes, it's immoral. You should always choose your fish by their adult size so they will be in the proper size tank from the beginning. That way, you won't get yourself into a bind if your plans for that bigger tank fall through.

Gargoyle

Yeah just get a bigger tank... If you have 2 pleco's I would suggest at LEAST a 55 gallon tank.. Bigger would be better of course like a 75 or 125.. But I think that you may be able to get away with a 55.. If not I am sure that someone on here will correct my post...

Gunnie

You will really hate your common pleco as it gets bigger in your tank. It will knock everything over and pretty much wreck your tank as it grows. You both will be happier with a larger tank. Mine is over a foot long and in a 100 gal. tank. He even tears that tank up sometimes!

armadillo

OK. 55G I really don't have the room for. Would 150L (39.6G) be big enough for one?

armadillo

It is to do with morals as my question implies: do they suffer from it. Your answer is really informative, thanks for that. May I ask where you read that their internal organs kept growing? I'd like to read up on that more.

All responses make me conclude that it is cruel to keep them, even if (especially if) their external size do not grow to their full potential.

Gunnie

a 39 gal. tank is still really too small. I know it's hard to give up fish, but maybe you can find someone with a pond that could keep him.

Luniyn

Of course now that I want to find it, I can't find what I'm looking for (I usually find this stuff while searching for something completely different). But the best evidence of the organs still growing would be in pictures of fish that have hunched backs or bent spines. You can see from the outside that their insides just kept on growing but due to the confines they had to become deformed in order to fit the larger parts inside. But besides the growth issue, waste as they get larger is such a huge factor that it is probably more of an issue then the stunting issue. In fact this short article talks about it here, and in it they mention how a 6" Oscar has the mass and waste output of around 216 1" Oscars. So you can see how larger fish can easily cause toxic levels of chemicals in your water if in a tank too small for them.

armadillo

Thanks, Lunylin. Not a pretty mental picture.

armadillo

OK, I think I need to get rid of them. I'll find out if the fish store will have them. I don't really mind parting with them if it's what's best. I just don't like the idea of a long move for them. But it's better in the long term. Shame, I really liked one of them (the other two are sooo shy I've barely seen them)

Gunnie

There are many bristlenose plecos that would be better suited to your tank. Go to www.planetcatfish.com and find one you like.

armadillo

That's it. I caught them this afternoon and brought them to a fish store. I really hope they'll take good care of them and give them to good owners. It's the most knowledgeable fish store I'd seen, so I have hope. He never even offered to get me store credit, though...

I'm going to miss the smallest pleco. He was really cute.

OK, the good news is I could get 2 more female mollies to replace them, which brings my load in my 72L to only 3 mollies (and a looot less vaccuuming).

armadillo

When all is settled, I'll get a small pleco (zebra would be cool, but sooo expensive).

tan.b

i like the zebras too. i think they're wild caught and low in numbers which is why they are sooooooo expensive. do check this though...i could be wrong. you know when you're sure you've read something, but you cant think where....well thats it!!
bristlenoses are good though! and mine arent shy, they have a one track mind.....food! so when they see me they come forward for an algae wafer or cucumber or as i discovered......tomato! they love it!
btw, i''m glad you returned the common plecos. it frustrates me when lfs's sell them without mentioning to the purchaser just how much space they need.
good luck in your pleco quest!!

armadillo

Thanks, Tan B. It was actually tougher than I thought. I keep wondering who the FS will sell it to and, judging by my experience, there's no guarantee that he'll be sold to the owner of a bigger tank. But I guess a 99% risk of him getting too small a home is better than a 100% risk.

I am kind of looking forward to finding a new pleco, although I don't really like the looks of BNs now that I've looked into it more. I looooove the zebras but they are really expensive here too. Ah well, plenty of time. I need to my tank to be properly established before even thinking about that.

The great news is: as soon as all my fish (currently in a 72L and a 60L) are in the new 150L (cycling fishless now), I am getting a betta for my 72L!!! I simply cannot wait!

tan.b

awww. you can only hope he's gone to a good home and not dwell on the chance he hasnt.
the polka dot plecos look cool, but i cant remember their size and availablity. i have a habit of remember snippets of info, but never the full story!!! quite frustrating at times. sign of old age :?
ooooo, a betta! how exciting! i'd love one and hopefully one day i will have one in about 5 yrs when nature has taken its course on most of my fish. unless impatience gets the better of me and i get that 5th tank! the main thing detering me at the mo is i havent seen any nice healthy ones around here. so my option is.....dont buy one out of principle for them housing them badly (in tanks of tetras nipping them), or buy one as see it as a rescue attempt that i've given one of their bettas a better home....but have a high chance of it dying as the stress of being ripped apart by the tetras in shop and therefore the high chance of fin rot and the rehoming/acclimation etc could just be too much for it (and me) and just watch him die away. they all have frayed fins. my son really wants one and keeps asking. i just dont know if i can risk it...especially as i've never had one before, i'd rather get a healthy one and leave the poorly looking ones for an expert to save...

armadillo

You're right. No point in dwelling on the bad possibility. It may be that he ended up in the home of someone who really knows their stuff, and being spoilt to death. Would be nice.

RE: Betta. Weeeeeell. I think they all look poorly at the store, but not all of them are in a bad shape, just depressed. I think they could bloom in a couple of weeks given the right care. Go on, get the 5th tank, get the 5th tank, get the 5th tank. At least you won't have to deal with getting betta babies all the time, like you do the guppies. Am definitely taking the plunge!