Autumn8504

Hi there everyone,
I'm new here and having difficulty with my bf's new tank. Please help if you can! Nitrites are high and fish look like they have Ick (based on description from this site), could just be scale death tho??. They are swimming around at times with fins clamped, or lay on the bottom doing nothing. We have been doing 20-50% water changes every day/ every other day for about a week. A few weeks ago (before I got a test kit) we brought a water sample to a fish store who said it was "perfect." We figured this meant that it was finished cycling and everything would be okay. (We have had the water tested once or more every week since we set up the aquarium.) Being concerned new fish "parents" we brought a sample in again last Sunday to see how we were doing and they said that we needed a better filter (more biological component) and another water change...we did this but my bf didn't realize that the new filter wasn't working properly. I came over yesterday and realized/fixed the problem but the fish looked horrible (like they have white beads all over) and upon testing the water we found the nitrites were ridiculously high.

Here's what we did so far:
We stopped feeding the fish, added Amquel+ to help lower the nitrites, and did two water changes (20% and 50%). They already have some salt in the tank from about two weeks ago (at the suggestion of the fish store people right after we got the fish).

Questions:
1. What can we do to help our poor fish?
2. Can/should we add more Amquel? The bottle says to wait 24 hours but I'm not sure our fish will be okay until then.
3. Should we treat for Ick, or wait until the nitrites are better?
4. Should we ideally wait a whole 24 hours between water changes?

Here's the deal:
10 gallon
planted
3 platys (1 other died this morning )
set up between 3 and 4 weeks ago

Stats:
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 2-4
nitrate - 10-20
pH - 7.6
Temp - 76

Please help us...I'm having the worse month ever and it has barely begun I can't stand to see our poor fish suffering like this!

hkirchen

How old is your tank? It may not be finished cycling. I would do a 50% water change every day because the nitrite level is very high, and you will lose your fish if you do not.

I have nevery used Amquel, so I do not know if it is okay to use.

I would add prime every time you do a water change to help nullify the effects of the nitrites.

Good luck, and I hope your fish are okay!

agabr123

I'm not sure about the Amquel, I use prime personally. but if Amquel says that it detoxifies ammonia for 24 hours, and removes chlorine, chloramine, and heavy metals, then it does the same thing as prime.

What kind of filter do you have? When you changed it, did you remove the old filter media and replace the whole thing with new? If so, that crashed your cycle.

Also, I would get a test kit, API freshwater master test kit is my recommendation, it's a bit more expensive than the strips, but DEFINITELY worth it, as the strips are very inaccurate.

1. I'd do daily water changes until you get through your cycle. 50% with prime (or amquel if it does the same thing).
2. What is the dosage recommendation? I know that for prime, you can add up to 5x the dose in an emergency.
3. To treat for ICH, just raise the temperature to about 84F for two weeks. That will kill all of the spores, but make sure that you do a thorough gravel vacuum to get them up. This won't be a problem since you'll be doing water changes, so just vacuum thoroughly during those. If you continue to see spots after two weeks (or if the spots have just gone away by the last couple of days) continue to leave the temperature at 84F for another couple of days.
4. If you do it at the same time every day that would probably be easier for you and not a problem for your fish. For today, I'd do a 75% water change with NO gravel vacuum.

Since they are platies, the salt isn't a problem, but for almost all other fish (especially scale-less fish like plecos, and sensitive ones like angels) adding salt generally is not recommended.

Oh, and welcome to fishlore!!!!

Lucy

Hi Welcome to Fish Lore
I'm really sorry your fish aren't feeling well. It's frustrating.
The good news is according to the numbers you posted, it looked like your tank is almost done cycling.
You're doing the right thing changing the water everyday. Keep changing 50% until the cycle is complete.
I use Prime, but if Amquel detoxifies Nitrites, you can continue with that. Daily should be fine. I think most of them detox for 24 hrs between water changes.

For Ich, you can slowly (1 degree per hour) raise your temp to 83/84F. Increase aeration to make up for less oxygen in warmer water. Leave the temp elevated for at least 2 weeks and do a thorough gravel vac to pick up the ich spores.
If the ich on your fish is severe, you might want to consider medication, but be aware, many meds effect the cycle.

Hang in there and Good luck.

I type slow!

agabr123

Lol, one of the benefits of being a college kid with lots of caffeine!

Autumn8504

I use AquaSafe water conditioner (with BioExtract) with every water change: "Neutralizes chlorine, chloramines, and heavy metals..." and I used AmQuel+ last night when nitrites were high: Removes Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, Chlorine & Chloramines (as fish store people recommended).

agabr123

That's good then, use the AquaSafe for your daily water changes until you get through the cycle. Does the AmQuel + say remove on the bottle or does it say either detoxify or lock? Does it claim to leave the ammonia/nitrate/nitrite available to the biological filter? If not, then I wouldn't use it anymore. That will "lock" in the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite and leave it unavailable to the biological filter, which means that you will never finish your cycle.

Autumn8504

AmQuel+ "eliminates Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia..., removes toxic organics in older water..., and does not interfere with the biological filtration or nitrifying bacteria..."

agabr123

okay, it sounds like you shouldn't have a problem with that then. for water changes, just use the aquasafe, and then if the nitrites don't go down, add the amquel + as per the recommended dosage

Autumn8504

About the filters:
We originally had a Top Fin 10 power filter that came with the Top Fin (PetSmart brand I think) aquarium kit that my bf bought. It only used carbon cartridges I think as opposed to the new filter that uses foam, carbon and biomax. My bf supposedly took the Top Fin filter out Sunday and replaced it with AquaClear 20 Power Filter and did a 20% water change. When I noticed the problems yesterday I put the other filter back in to work with the new filter. So BOTH filters are working the tank right now.

About Water Testing:
We checked our tank with an API freshwater master test kit (used for the first time last night) and Jungle Quick Strips, which we have been using to check the water in between bringing the samples to the store for testing. We found that at PetSmart that's really all they use anyway, so we have been going to a local store for testing the last few times.

Thanks for all the help!!! Please keep it coming...

Autumn8504

BTW, the fish responded immediately to the filters going on last night (they may have been sleeping though by the time we got in) and started swimming around a little...before that I think they were more lathargic. Now they at least move around every now and then. It didn't stop our little girl from passing away this morning though.

cerianthus

OK everyone!!
Since Amquel+ is pretty new product on the market, followed up on their reading materials (actually wanted to find the chemical reactions invloved but since patent pending, just general info).
Amquel+ is NOT COMPATIBLE w/ any Ammonia Test kit using Nessler Reagent (one bottle) and Recommend to use Salicylate method (2 bottles or reagents) BUT IMCOMPATIBLE w/ API Salicylate Method Ammonia Test Kits for unknown reasons (maybe trying to promote their Salicylate Test Kit??)

So, Anyone with API test kit, should not use Amquel+ since will get FALSE READING.

I'll follow up with thier progress with Patent (dying to know how it detoxify NH3, NO2, NO3) which might take who knows how long.

agabr123

what kind of heater is it? i'm pretty sure that 50 watts should be plenty for a 10 gallon. what temperature do you have it set to?

Autumn8504

Another fish passed away today - our blue mickey mouse female : ( She was doing so well too...I thought she would be the last to go because she seemed healthier than the others. This is very frustrating.

Autumn8504

A third died during the night A blue mickey mouse with a red tail. He had been struggling, but was surviving. One left for us to hope and pray for.

krismoore888

that is shame, hopefully the last one will survive

Lucy

I'm really sorry about your fish.

What are your readings today?
Keep up the the daily changes until you get your cycle back.
Sending good fishy thought to your little fish.

Autumn8504

Sadly our last fish passed away today. Thanks for all the help...but in the end there was nothing we could do. Now we are trying to figure out the best way to eventually start over. Should we dump it all out and rinse everything (start over fresh - including the cycling)? Or would it be best to keep the tank at a high temp (82-84) for a few weeks and retest the water before proceding (in case the Ick is still present)? What would be best in this situation? What would you do? Once again, thank you for your input and expertise.

agabr123

I'm sorry you lost your fish.....

if it were me, i would do a 100% water change with gravel vacuum, then let the tank sit dry for a couple of days. then fill it back up again and re-start your cycle fresh.

there are a few ways you can do this,
1. buy PURE ammonia (meaning the only ingredients are water and ammonia), i've heard some people have had success finding it at ace hardware. add ammonia every day anywhere from 2-4ppm. once the cycle can process the ammonia in 24 hours and ends up with 0ppm ammonia and nitrite and 5-20ppm nitrate, then you're cycled.
2. add fish food, this gets messy but when the food breaks down it will produce ammonia. IMO, number 1 works better.
3. add a piece of raw shrimp. see #2.
4. buy Tetra Safe Start. with this method, you add all of the fish that you're going to have in the tank and the TSS on the first day, and don't do water changes or test the water for a week. after a week, test the water. if you're cycled (see #1 for readings you should have), then do a 25-40% water change and you're done! if not, wait a couple more days with NO water change, and see how long it takes to cycle. as far as i know, this is the ONLY product that anyone here will recommend that can actually kickstart your cycle. most other products (such as Cycle, stress zyme, etc) use bacteria that is NOT self sustaining, meaning that you would have to add it with every single water change (and probably more often than that) otherwise your cycle would crash.

hope that helps!