Apathas

Lately I have notice my very active male platy behavior started to change recently. Instead of chasing the female or swimming all over the tank, he decided to hide under the spill over of the water filter and today started swimming in circles at the surface of the water.

Current water conditions are as followed:
Temp 80F
pH 7.4
NH3/4 0.0
NO2 0.0
NO3 10.0
KH 80
GH 60

I have not notice him deficating lately, so I am leaning towards swim bladder, however I do notice his gills are little redder then normal.

0morrokh

What is the tank size & other fish? What are they being fed & how much? When he is swimming in circles, you mean he is unbalanced/out of control, right? Is he showing any physical symptoms-especially anything like spinal/head deformities?

I would skip feeding him for a day and then give him thawed & cut up frozen peas for a day or two to rule out overfeeding/constipation as the issue. If he is having a hard time swimming and is being bothered by the other fish, or if you suspect an internal infection, I'd quarintine him immediately.

I may be wrong but I'm guessing that you use strip tests (from the fact you have a kh & gh test, which usually aren't bought unless they come in a combo strip). If so I'll just give you a heads up now that they tend to be inaccurate. It's better to get liquid tests, such as the one sold by API.

Apathas

30g tank
False Julii Cory Cat x4
Red Wag Platy x 2 (include sick fish)
Moved to 10g tank by himself for now. 10g has exact same parameter is active tank since I keep the betta, who now injoying in tank, in there.

Test are done with liquid test, espically with GH/KH since tap water here is extremely soft. 0 KH 10 GH with 6.8 to 7.0 ph. so I have be accurate since else I will get an extreme PH change in mere mintues.


I mix food between freeze dried blood worms/ brine shimp and flakes. All soaked before they go into the tank. Cory Cats only like flakes and blood worms and he has a habit becomming a pig when also trying to feed the cories.

Initially he was hanging around the water outpour of the fish filter. Later on I notice he was swimming around in circles with his tail slightly pointed bit down and leaning to the left. There is no deformities. Though he is looking a little fatter then normal.

His fins are not clamped.

Since I moved him to 10g tank.
I have not noticed him deficated yet.
His fins are still not clamped.
He does rest at the bottom of the tank but will start moving again espically, if it looks like about to feed him.
I notice no pineconeing of scales or spots that normally does not have.

He does look like he has to put a bit of effort into swimming espically if he want to go up to the surface. He is acting like he hugry so I am going to give him some peas either later today or tomarrow.

0morrokh

I see, here I'm used to super hard tap water...no use for kh/gh tests. Sounds like you're pretty on top of things.

Sorry, I misread your original post, I thought you said you HAD seen him defecating...since you haven't the issue is definately constipation. For the peas, use frozen (not canned) and microwave them until they're thawed. Skin should come off easily, then cut up the pea super tiny. The pieces sink so make sure he's looking when you drop it in, or else hand feed.

Constipation can be caused by overfeeding things like fd bloodworms. Fd stuff is good for variety (and as more of a staple for more carnivorous fish) but the platys need a lot more veggie matter in their diet. You don't mention what type of flakes you're using but veggie flakes are great for Platys...I like to alternate between veggie & regular/color flakes, and occasionally give fd stuff and fresh (microwaved) veggies like zucchini. The best brand for flakes is Omega One if you can find it.

Apathas

They are normally fed top fin tropical flakes and will go after the algae and raw peas that I would normally give them. I should get some veggie flakes for both platy and cory cats.

The little trooper has been hanging in there, I ruled out constipation. Wednesday I started with maracyn I & II regiment. I have notice he started perk up since maracyn. However I have notice some differences in his appearance now.

His iris has gone from a dark gray to very light gray in both eyes, in additionally I have notice a bit of a S shape bend in his spine when viewed above.

He diffidently getting more active again, he will begin swimming around when I am in the room. I am hoping though he will continue to get better.

0morrokh

The bend in the spine worries me. Keep him in quarintine for now even if he appears to be better. I think vitamin deficiencies can cause deformities in livebearers...I will see if I can find more specific info on that. The only other thing that would cause the spine to become deformed is a serious infection like pescine tb or whirling disease. Both are generally considered untreatable, although a few people (unfortunately not myself, though I've seen both diseases in livebearers...) have had luck with kanamycin sulfate. If it is tb that is of particular concern because it can in very rare cases be transmitted to humans through a cut in the skin, so I'd advise wearing gloves when working in his q tank.

possible symptoms of tb:
wasting, or bloating followed by wasting
finrot
ulcers
darkening of color
popeye
swim bladder infection
spine deformities

possible symptoms of whirling disease:
deformed head
deformed spine
loss of swimming control

Especially without seeing the fish (pics would be helpful if you can get any) it's hard to say for sure what the problem is, but keep an eye for any changes or other symptoms since the diseases I mentioned are very serious, and unfortunately pretty common in petstore livebearers.

By the way you can get kanamycin sulfate here http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198732/product.web I like to keep it on hand as a last resort for serious diseases.

0morrokh

Ok here's an article about vitamin deficiency. http://www.fishdeals.com/fish_diseas..._deficiencies/

I would get some Vitachem and dose his tank with that. I think you can soak food in it too. Also Top Fin isn't the best brand for food...my first choice would be Omega One and second Hikari, although there are a few other less common brands that are also very good. Cheap common brands like Tetra and Wardley, and generic brands like Top Fin are fine for supplies but don't make the best food. Definately try to get some veggie flakes. I think spine problems are common in livebearers with improper diets.

Apathas

Omorrokh I want to tank you for the help so far.

As for pictures I wish I had a good enought camra to take a picture. Though I do not think it would help too much as apperance wise he looks perfectly fine. He does not even clamp if fins.

As for the bind of his spin he seems to only have it slightly to the right and only towards the back of his tail. Though it could always be the push of the water current.

It comes down to this since all this started a over week ago. His on odd behivor is that he lays down on the bottom for a long while, then he will active. The antibotics seems to be helping as he is alot more active then before. Normaly he is our busy platy, always all over the tank. Additionally he seems to struggle to swim, and I will only find him at the very bottom or very top of the tank.

I am going to look at veggie flakes for the platies and cory cats. As for my betta he will go on hunger strike unless I feed him blood worms.

0morrokh

What antibiotic are you using? Is he still bloated?

Apathas

I am using Maracyn 1 & 2. He does not look bloated, nor does he look like he hollowed out. His main thing is that he is lethargic, and he seems to have a bit of a problem controlling his swimming.

I think at this point you are as stumped on what is wrong as I am. I will try to get a picture of him today or tomarrow. One thing I have on my mind lately is the possiblity that he might be blind.

0morrokh

That's really weird. Usually swim bladder issues come with other symptoms, bloating usually. What exactly does his swimming look like? Does he lean to one side, or spin around, or what?

What makes you think he's blind? Is there anything different about his eyes, or are you just guessing that because of his behavior?

Apathas

It was only a though he might be blind since he does not react to me apporching like the other platy will do. But I think that ruled out since he will become active if i sneak into the room and start droping some flakes into his tank.

I was thinking it was swim bladder because when he goes to the bottom of the tank he seems to land hard. Honestly do not think that now.

As to how he swims he tends to stay head towards the surface at about a 15or 20 degree angle. Just enought to make it look like he always grabing food form the surface. While he doing this he seems to stuggle to stay in that position.

I am starting to wonder if maybe he having a gill fluke problem. He is lethargic. When i get close enought to him when at the surface he seems to blow very little bubbles and acts as if he getting something to eat from the surface.

On the side note i tried to get a picture of him today but he decided to not cooperate and hide behind a plant.

0morrokh

Is he flashing, breathing hard/gasping for breath, and/or has red gills?

Apathas

I've seen him flash in the past but he has not done it in few weeks. As for redness in his gill. I sware they are but its hard to tell since he red in color in general =). Breathing hard, I would so some what but not overly.

0morrokh

If you think he has red gills, could be gill flukes. Maybe try treating for those? Sorry I can't be of more help.

Apathas

I am thinking that is possible, really hard to tell with such a little guy.

Apathas

What would you suggest for possible gill fluke treatment. I may have to treat both tanks, and the Cory cats are not tolerate of salt.


I added some Melafix to the tank today to see if that would make him feel better. The little bugger decided to perk up. Last few hours he been swimming around. However he still seems to spend a lot of his time skimming the surface, as he was doing before, though he is a bit more reactive to me being around.

0morrokh

Hmmm flukes........I'd just get a name brand parasite med...Mardel, API and Jungle Labs all make parasite stuff. Salt kills most parasites too, you could add a couple Tbsp per 5 gal (everyone says a different amount...keep in mind a Platy can stand quite a bit of salt. And like you said no salt with the cories.).

For severe infections (just for future reference) formalin + malachite green (or one on its own) would be my 1st choice, something copper based my 2nd choice ...but for now stick to something less harsh till you're sure what the disease actually is. Also just for future reference most parasite meds (esp. ones w/ copper) kill inverts.

I really hate advising people to medicate without knowing for sure what the issue is...but I've just seen too many livebearers die and it always starts with sitting on the bottom...so I don't want to tell you not to medicate.... I guess just try something anti-parasite and see if he gets any better or not. I've been in similar situations as you (fish sick but no clue what the disease is) so I know how frustrating it must be....

Apathas

I really do think is lethargicness is comming from some sort of gill problem. The melafix would at most reduced any irritation, and airstone I just added for more oxygen in the water. With those he is spending less time at the bottom and more towards the surface playing in the air bubbles. Now that I think about it, this what he was doing prior to moving him form my main tank.

His hunger and looks has not changed since all this started. **** he decided to see if my hand tasted good when i was putting the air stone in his tank.

I am thinking of trying either a heavy salt bath or a hydrogen poroxide bath which some use for gill fluke.

0morrokh

Our hands must smell good or something, cause my fish are always "tasting" me too....


Yeah salt baths are good. Never heard of using hydrogen peroxide...

Edit: I would save the H2O2 for an extreme case in which you're positive the problem is flukes...

Apathas

Well he still hanging in there, he is improving though very slowly. Now he just hovers above the substrate, and will spend more time swimming around the tank and takes less effort to convince him to get food.

0morrokh

Glad to hear he's doing well...though I wish I knew what exactly the problem was. Keep us updated.

Apathas

He continues to recover, he now at about 95% of his normal activity level. I think I will place him back into general population later this week. As a test I captured the female and put her in the QT/Beta tank and after a few pecks between each other they are following each other around like he normally does.

0morrokh

Great...hopefully he makes a full recovery. Maybe he was just feeling under the weather from his time in the pet store and needed some clean water and good care to recuperate.

Apathas

Looks like this little guy just does not have much luck.

Up until recently he been getting happy and fat with his mate. Until Sunday morning when i notice his left eye was starting to get a little bigger. By time i got back for a family event he had full blown popeye.

I dunno if he injured his eye, or what he had previously has manifest as something new. For now I just salted his tank and doing little water changes every day with some antibacteria/fungal meds to see if this well clear up in couple of days. Though I have been pondering the idea of just ending his suffering.

0morrokh

Sheesh he's having quite a hard time. Hopefully this popeye won't turn out too serious. What meds are you using?

Apathas

I guess I was not ment to save this one, he finally pass away during the night.

Kinda of odd how they can sometimes be alive and active, then gone the next day.