Munny

Hey everyone, I am rather new to the forums, and I already have some questions! I just tested my tank water (tank is about 5-6 weeks old), and I discovered my pH level is quite high -8.2ish, and my water is on the hard side 150ish. My other water measures seem to be in the safe-ideal areas. Here are my latest test sample results:

ammonia - .2
nitrate - 10-15
nitrite - .2
Hardness - 150ish
chlorine - 0
alkalinity - 220ish
PH - 8.2

I have 3 different live plant types that are growing like weeds. The tank consists of mostly tetras, a few glow danios, and some rose barbs. The fish also seem to be doing quite well. I have not had a problem with fish dieing etc.

So, with the above information should I be worried about my PH level, and alkalinity etc?

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore!!!! and I wouldnt worry as much about ph right now as I would the ammonia and nitrites..which ALWAYS should be 0...and nitrates under 20...looks like you are still cycleing but coming along well...id do 50% water changes daily, treating the tap water with prime, until you are totally cycled...goodluck!

Gargoyle

The PH is one of those params you should really leave be... Your could spend a ton of money trying to correct it and honestly in my experience it just not worth it. Most if not all fish can and will adjust to PH levels.

Since you have plants you could try adding C02 which will lower your PH levels.

With your ammonia readings and such it makes me wonder what test kit you are using to get these results. If you not using the API master test kit I suggest you get it so you will at least have accurate test readings. If you are using test strips throw them away.

Also adding more plants will help control the toxins as well.

Munny

Thx for the welcome!

Yes, unfortunately I am using test strips. I still have quite a few left. Once I use them up I will buy a good kit.

These results were also taken a day after a water change (about 20%). As for the ammonia level, the strip had just a faint hint of color to it. My best guess would be less than .2, but I am playing it safe on the result.

As for my water changes, I have been doing 20% or so every other day. It was my understanding that doing a large % would slow down the cycle?

My plants are doing extremely well.I have cut them back, and replanted the cut offs 2 times now. What started off as 3 small live plant bunches, has now doubled in size. That has to be a good sign I am thinking?

Oh, I forgot to add our newest member. A small brown crab - aka, Mr. pinchy to my son.

This tank makes me wish I would have never got rid of my 2 - 55gl tanks a ways back! I am already pondering a large tank purchase lol.

Shawnie

No changing the water only helps the fish and the cycle along..there is no beneficial bacteria in the water...just the filter media and decorations/subtrate...even if the strips are inaccurate(which i totally agree), theres nitrites as well..which both ammonia and nitrites are posionous to fish...your fish will acclimate to ph's, but never to ammonia and nitrites...I think MTS (multiple tank syndrome) will attack soon goodluck with everything

Gargoyle

Your plants will be very good at removing Ammonia from your water. If you have many of them your cycle my never complete because the plants will eat up all of the ammonia in the water they can get.

Basically any amount of live plants is great for your fish. The plants can slow the nitrogen cycle down but the cycle shouldn't be a race anyway. Keeping the fish healthy is the priority here so I would suggest the better test kit "again" LOL!!!

Anyway good luck and it sounds like your on the right track!

Munny

I will be purchasing a master kit tonight. I am eager to see the difference in my results. I knew the guy was full of **** when I asked for a kit, and he said they only have "these", but they are just as accurate.

About the ammonia, and plants. Should I remove a few bunches that have sprouted off the originals? I have a mini 2.5g tank that housed a goldfish at one point. I planned on using it for my excess plants once I had the back wall covered to my liking. Right now I would say the back wall is about 50% of the coverage I want.

Next up, adding C02. Is it a necessity at this point? What is a recommended way of doing this?

Last item: with the live plants in my tank is there a way to verify my cycle is complete besides testing the water? Any algae of some sort as an indicator?

Gargoyle

Lets keep this basic right now. I will ad links to this for your reference and education if you would like more info about anything I explain below. As with everything your needs and desires for your tank will change and with that the questions you ask. :-)

1) Plants = good / Lots of plants = Better

2) Cycle = Tank with no plants. A planted tank rarely will cycle like a non planted one. The typical "spikes" normally do not happen. The fish are healthier as a result and the plants provide stability to the water. So if you miss your weekly water change it's typically no biggie.

3) C02 depends on you general watts per gallon. There is still debate over how to calculate this effectively but for now we will use WPG (watts per gallon) So if you have a 55 gallon tank with 2 WPG or more (110watts or higher) of light then C02 is needed. Other wise a product like Flourish Excel will suit your needs very well.

4) Algae is NOT an indicator of a completed cycle. Algae is an indicator that your plants are not as happy as they could be. Make the plants happy and the algae goes bye bye.

5) If your running a moderately to heavily planted tank you need not worry about the cycle. Just do tests every 3 days or so for a few weeks. You'll get a very good picture of what is going on in the tank by doing this and your worries will subside as a result. If you get high readings of anything I would add more plants. They seem to fix everything if you do the research to properly care for them.


So if it was me I would leave the plants in the tank, prune off dead anything, and check the lighting you are providing to determine the C02 needs if any at this point.

Munny

Wow, thanks for the great reply Gargoyle!

Right now my WPG is .75. I plan on putting some reflector's in my hood to focus the light back down. I might try some high reflective tape I put on my work trailer, or just use some cupped stainless I have. I will experiment with that.

My plants currently in the tank are:
Ludwigia Repens
Egeria Densa
Echinodorus 'Rose'

I would put my tank in the lightly to mid coverage category.

I will eventually put in something to tie down to my rock shelves. As for fertilizer, I have been using FloraPride at slightly less than the recommended dosage.

Algae, I do have some Diatom growth but very little at this point, and I just discovered a few green spots on the glass below the gravel line.

Thanks again, I am off to grab my test kit!!

sirdarksol

I have to say that I disagree with Gargoyle on the planted tank not cycling thing. It may not happen the way that a normal tank cycles, but it still cycles. The fact that you have nitrates in your water is proof that the nitrifying bacteria are growing.

As Gargoyle said, keep it simple right now. I have yet to set up a CO2 system for my tanks, and I've got some pretty heavily planted tanks. This is not to say that CO2 isn't important, but it's not necessary. Also, don't worry about algae right now. As Gargoyle said, it doesn't necessarily have any significance in regards to the cycle (though the diatoms seem to appear near the end of the cycle, this isn't a guarantee. The ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings are the only guarantee). Manually clean the stuff off the walls, and worry more about it once you're done. Not even the most perfectly balanced tank is completely free of algae, however. Even Takeshi Amano, one of the greatest minds in planted tanks, uses help from a type of shrimp that eats algae in order to keep his tanks clean.

As far as pH goes, my pH is about at the level yours is. I have fish that are supposed to live in acidic water, and they're doing fine. Basically, the biggest problem with a high pH is that some fish won't breed for you.

Munny

Just finished my water test with the API master set:

PH - 7.8 confirmed against tap water, and low PH test.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates -10 , maybe a bit higher

So, I guess those strips were WAAAAY off, and headed for the G-can

The trace algae I have should be taken care of by my CAE correct? I have a small brown crab who seems to like trimming my plants for me, and is a bottom scavenger so I was told. I also have 2 cory cats, and 1 blind cave tetra(?) for my bottom crew. I might invest in a few ghost shrimp. I like their looks, and they have a purpose.

Once I get my plants to flourish to my desired coverage level I will begin to seek out a 70g or so tank.

Gargoyle

Your reading look a bit more realistic now. I'm very happy you chose to get the better kit. From what you have shown it looks like your cycle has completed so no more worries there.

I would still do a test every 3 to 4 days just to establish a base line for you tank then move it to at least once a week.

Then when and if Nitrates climb to the 20 - 30 or so mark do a 50% water change and monitor it again with the tests... I know it seems like a lot of work but it will enable you to "know" when your tank requires servicing without testing all the time.

With your current "WPG" I would not add C02 at this time. If you really wanted to you could play with a DIY type of C02 but I would not go further than that without more light.

I would say your doing very well with what you have right now. Master what you have then move into the more complex setups when you feel comfortable.

Gargoyle

Not to be picky but....

sirdarksol

Sorry, I read what you wrote as "planted tanks don't normally cycle". Stupid English language and multiple meanings in the same sentence structure.

Gargoyle

It's cool... Just didn't wanna be thought of as one of those people spewing bad info.. LOL!!

Munny

Thanks again Gargoyle. I will be doing another water test tonight, and see where I am sitting. Hopefully I can get my water changes down to a minimum with some help from the plants. Once I get everything running smoothly here it is time to start planning for a 75g tank.

I still have a few more plants i want to add in on my rock shelves. Other than that I think I am good.

Munny

Odd test results. After 2 tests to confirm my results.

Ammonia - 0
Nitrites - 0
Nitrates - less than 5

My last test was done before a 20% water change 3 days ago. So, it looks like I have a good balance going on, and might be able to get away with one 20% water change per week. I will do a 50% change, and check it again in 3 days. If my results are still good with low nitrates I will hold on the water change and let it sit. Hopefully, my nitrate gains are slow enough to do a water change once a week, or maybe less!

Gargoyle

Your Nitrates are dropping due to the plants using them as food. A lot of planted tank owners actually BUY nitrates to feed to their plants. I would scale the water changes back to once a week at this point unless you see nitrates over 20 or so.

My 55 gallon tank with 2 to 3 wpg, fertilizers and C02 ALWAYS reads 0 on everything. I do 50% water changes every week to "reset" the tank for the next round of ferts. Thats the only reason I do them also. If it wasn't for the way I fertilize I could do one water change a month easily.

I would still test before each water change you decide to do just to see what the readings are.

Sounds like you have a good thing going.