One more question for you wonderful folks on fishlore!
My farlowella cat is acting sickly again (he was doing this same thing a few weeks ago). He cant seem to get comfortable and is laying in very strange positions on plants... I know it's hard to explain but trust me there is something wrong with the water quality.
I brought a sample of my water to a fish store (cause I couldnt find a test kit for hardness anywhere) and he explained to me how there are two measures of hardness GH and KH. He said my alkalinity was low and that I should use this alkaline buffer stuff. A teaspoon for my 65 gallon tank. Because I still dont completely understand I would like a second opinion... should I do this? It says it will raise my pH too and my pH is already 7.6. And I thought the whole point was to stabilize the water so the pH doesnt fluctuate. I failed chemistry once in college... I need help understanding this! Thank you!
As far as the pH goes I wouldnt try to change it. The fish in your tank will adapt to it. Changing it can cause stress and open the door for sickness. Thats if its not extremely high.
As far as your alkalinity buffer goes I have never used anything like that before so Im not going to tell you not to/or to use it. Hopefully someone will post on here that is familiar with alkaline buffer.
I dont like adding chemicals to my water unless I absolutely have to. Adding chemicals tend to screw up your balance in your tank. So if you are thinking about using something, make sure you absolutely have to use it.
Sorry I cant be of further help to you. Everything else looks great as far as water parameters go.
Actually I just thought of something that could be making your water alkalinity low. What types of decorations do you have in the tank? Rock, driftwood, plants, etc.
Those things could be making a difference in the alkalinity.
OK, here's the breakdown. gH and kH are Genreral hardness and Carbonate hardness. General hardness is the measure of total dissolved minerals in the water. Carbonate hardness is the amount of dissolved carbonates in water, and usually isn't too important unless you're running CO2 (which I do). BUT, the guy at the pet store was right, and adding a pH buffer, especially a carbonate based one can possibly raise your pH. But I don't think it'll happen unless you have live plants, I'm not positive.
Now, you have a Farlowella catfish, which is an Amazon region fish. And Amazon fish like very soft water (low gH) and low pH (between 6.5 and 7.0). Right off the bat your pH is too high for a farlowella cat , but unless you have an ammonia spike I would think it isn't so high as to make him sick. You're big 3 (ammonia, nitrites and nitrates) are ok, but how hard is the water? Did the guy at the pet store give you the readings? If your water is really hard that might be adding to him being uncomfortable. Please post all the readings the LFS guy gave you and I'll try and help all I can. Dropping the pH and the hardness isn't too difficult.
One thing, unless your buffers are VERY low, I would hold off for now, if you have to lower your pH you could have a problem getting it to drop if the buffers are too high.
Get all the readings you can and I'll help if I can.
Thanks Jim! If I remember correctly he said it was 3... does that make any sense to you? If not he also said they would have a test kit available next week so I could get one then and check it. He said the same thing about the kH not being that important in my case. So far his advise is scoring well :P
That drift wood looks like it has been painted or dyed. Something has been done to change the color of the wood. Maybe that could be a good source of why your alkalinity is low.
I see 2 problems. Definitly if the wood has been painted or dyed it could be a problem. Also you said you have a piece of coral? I've been told that salt water corals and shells and such can contain large amounts of salt. This could also be affecting things.
I'm not sure what to tell you, it's up to you. But my personal opinion for my tanks has been if you don't trust it, yank it out. If you think the wood is leaching something, then get rid of it. Wait, i forgot to ask, was it something you bought that was made for fishtanks or something lying around? This could make a huge difference. Did you boil everything realy good before you set the tank up? If not it could also be bacteria from the wood or even possibly the coral.
Anyway, if you decide to get rid of one of them; I would do a 20-25% water change after and run some carbon for a few days (if you don't already) to make sure yu get whatever it was back out of the water.
Now, as for the hardness.. if he said 3 then he's most likely talking degrees (it can be read 2 ways). I'm not sure which he's talking, gH or kH, probably gH. Either way 3 is OK for now. If it's gH then 3 is fairly low and not bad for a farluwella. If it's kH then it's the buffer and that's not too terribly low and I wouldn't screw around with it yet. Oh, and BTW, if he gave you calcium carbonate (a.k.a. baking soda...no kidding) to raise the kH, then a teaspoon to 65 gallons won't do much, maybe a degree at best.
At this point, from what you've said, I'm more suspecting either the driftwood or the coral the more I think about it. Most fish can handle a little salt in the water, and you have a good sized tank. I'm leaning towards the driftwood. I had a HORRIFIC experience with a piece back around New Years that was loaded with bacteria (or something) and lost my best breeder Angels (rest in peace Sparkle & Elvira). I'm very distrusting of Driftwood, and always boil the out of it now. BTW, bought a huge old lobster cooker at a flee market just to boil big pieces of wood in.
The driftwood isnt painted or dyed. The object in the picture is the rock I got from Petsmart. Now I dont know if that is painted. The coral is new and he was acting that way before it was added so I am kinda ruling that one out. All of that stuff was supposed to be aquarium safe. Everybody else is healthy which makes me kinda doubt a chemical release or bacteria. But maybe the Farlowella is just more sensitive? The buffer is sodium bicarbonate according to what I found online. It is Alkaline Buffer by Seachem. I might have it backwards. He showed me the reading for the city water that said the hardness was at 450, this must have been the kH. And the 3 must have been the gH of my water? So I should probably should just leave it alone... One more random thing in my fish drawer I will never use
The driftwood isnt painted or dyed. The object in the picture is the rock I got from Petsmart. Now I dont know if that is painted. The coral is new and he was acting that way before it was added so I am kinda ruling that one out. All of that stuff was supposed to be aquarium safe. Everybody else is healthy which makes me kinda doubt a chemical release or bacteria. But maybe the Farlowella is just more sensitive? The buffer is sodium bicarbonate according to what I found online. It is Alkaline Buffer by Seachem. I might have it backwards. He showed me the reading for the city water that said the hardness was at 450, this must have been the kH. And the 3 must have been the gH of my water? So I should probably should just leave it alone... One more random thing in my fish drawer I will never use
OK, we can rule out the decorations...
He said the hardness was 450?? Wow, that's hard. He was talking gH, because if it was kH he definitly wouldn't have you increase it, he'd have you drop it. So your gH is 450 PPM and your kH is 3. kH is fine, but 450 is hard as a rock. I have the same problem here in Florida, and this could definitly be upsetting your cat.
OK, if it was me, I would first go buy some cheap (but not cheap, if you know what I mean) test strips, the ones that cover gH and kH as well as other stuff, and double check your findings. FYI, I have a RedSea test kit, an API test kit, and also Tetra test strips, so I can double check any weird readings if I get them. If your water is reading really hard, then what you'll want is a water softening pillow. I have a couple, they're pretty easy to use. You just sort of stuff it however yo can into your filter and run it a couple days and it'll remove the heavy minerals from your water. Just remember, like everything else, don't drop it too fast or you'll stress out your fish. I would also get a pH reducer and slowly drop your pH to 7.0 or a little lower, maybe 6.8. again, and I know I'm repeating myself, do it SLOWLY, no more than 0.25 to 0.5 points a day drop for the pH if possible.
Lastly, hold onto the buffer. Once you get your water where your catfish is acting more comfortable, then you can add some to help keep the pH fixed and stable.
I have pH Down but Im terrified of it cause I accidently crashed my pH in my 10 gallon with it. I added it to the water when I did water changes and I brought that water down to where I wanted it and added it... apparently it built up in the tank and after two water changes I crashed the pH. It was like there was a buffering line and once I crossed it, it just shot down in a matter of hours. I was measuring the pH then after the last water change it just shot down from 7.4 to 6.4. Luckly everyone survived, but Im scared now. So do I add it to the tank directly? Or am I missing some vital component?
I am SO STUPID!!! And I apologize for not remembering this sooner. The problem isn't chemical, it's behaviorial!!! You said Farluwella catfish... singular? He's all alone? THAT'S the problem! I had this happen about a year ago, and again I am so sorry I had forgotten. I'm going to copy a quote from the encyclopedia of exotic tropical fishes that might explain everything:
Farlowella acus (and F. knerii) are best kept in small groups numbering 5 or more individuals. Sadly, they are often sold as singles and many perish a short time later.
I would almost guerentee this is the problem! Before you screw with the tank chemestry, go get him some company!!!
one more question just to test this theory... the store where I bought the Farlowella filters the city water (you know instead of what we do at home, adding dechlorinator), would that have taken down the hardness? Because he lived at the store for months with out a problem. (I work there )
one more question just to test this theory... the store where I bought the Farlowella filters the city water (you know instead of what we do at home, adding dechlorinator), would that have taken down the hardness? Because he lived at the store for months with out a problem. (I work there )
If the water is filtered, especially thru an RO unit (reverse osmosis) then it would defintly be softer, yes.
Really! He had a buddy at the store too.... wow. His buddy was sold though a few weeks ago... I dont have any room for another one anyway... and if that is really the problem then there is no place I can bring it back to because none of the other pet stores are currently carrying them...
It is just odd because I also had alot of cory cats die in my system for unknown reasons (some of them were with friends, I thought we were maybe onto thier cause of death too...)
Really! He had a buddy at the store too.... wow. His buddy was sold though a few weeks ago... I dont have any room for another one anyway... and if that is really the problem then there is no place I can bring it back to because none of the other pet stores are currently carrying them...
It is just odd because I also had alot of cory cats die in my system for unknown reasons (some of them were with friends, I thought we were maybe onto thier cause of death too...)
Well, I'm not saying I'm positive, I may be wrong. But knowing he had a companion at the store definitly backs it up. maybe you can get the store to order a couple baby ones? I don't think size would matter (no pun intended...lol). Or I don't see why another store wouldn't take it, even if they don't carry them. They're pretty cool fish, and definitly an oddity for any store.
As for Cory's, they're notorously sensative to any water changes, and anything could have taken them out. Even with my swamp i had problems with them.
Oh I didnt mean they wouldnt take him... I just meant he would be in the same situation there except with more miserable conditions. I will look into that. Ok well I have learned lots of stuff from this post. Thank you Jim, very helpful!
Oh I didnt mean they wouldnt take him... I just meant he would be in the same situation there except with more miserable conditions. I will look into that. Ok well I have learned lots of stuff from this post. Thank you Jim, very helpful!
hey, no problem, that's why we're here. If you have any problems just post it and if I don't catch it there's a ton of people that'll be glad to help if they can.
So mister Fleco is back to acting like a normal Farlowella cat again until the next water change I suppose... I think what I am going to do is like I've read and "pay detailed attention to water quality". Think I will do weekly water changes and stick to 10 gallons and measure the temp of the water going back in (usually I estimate with my hand). And if another small Farlowella becomes available I will get him a buddy.
I also bought a test kit for hardness and it is between 125-250. The alkalinity is 80. I was thinking about buying another large piece of driftwood and using the Alkaline Buffer but I am worried that may be a bad idea being that I dont know about this sodium bicarbonate stuff. I do still think there is something environmental going on because his behavior changes everytime I do a water change. what to do what to do...
So mister Fleco is back to acting like a normal Farlowella cat again until the next water change I suppose... I think what I am going to do is like I've read and "pay detailed attention to water quality". Think I will do weekly water changes and stick to 10 gallons and measure the temp of the water going back in (usually I estimate with my hand). And if another small Farlowella becomes available I will get him a buddy.
I also bought a test kit for hardness and it is between 125-250. The alkalinity is 80. I was thinking about buying another large piece of driftwood and using the Alkaline Buffer but I am worried that may be a bad idea being that I dont know about this sodium bicarbonate stuff. I do still think there is something environmental going on because his behavior changes everytime I do a water change. what to do what to do...
yeah, this is where it can get tricky, trying to pin down something you can't really identify, but still you know from long term observation that something is just off a bit. Been there. As for the dritwood, go for it. Make sure it's really dried good, and then boil the out of it (literally..lol) for a couple 3 hours. It will leach most of the tannins when you boil it. What it releases into your water won't hurt an Amazon fish a bit. It will lower your pH a bit and soften the water, just like in the wild when the rainforests flood. And Farlowella's LOVE wood to attach to. They're obviously camoflage fish, you need to give them the wood to camo with and feel secure, preferably something long and stick like, just like the fish itself, get it?
One last thing. The water here in Florida sucks!!! So way back I went to Publix and bought one gallon of every type of bottled water and went home and tested them for hardness, pH, etc... Turns out Publix purified was the best here, so now instead of using the tap, I go blow $10.00 or whatever on the bottled. Believe me, in the long run, at least here, it's definitly worth the few dollars!
I'm all worried about the farlowella cat and I walk up to the tank this morning and Cory the Cory Cat is dead... the last one I had. That make 13, I think, that have died in this tank (obviously not going to put anymore in there). But he didnt look fine like all the rest I pulled out. It looked like his gills and throat area hemoraged badly... he was fine yesterday though... my head hurts... what am I doing wrong... Im sorry Cory.
Just retested everything. Nitrite 0 Ammonia 0 Nitrate is between 5 and 10 with the API test and 20 with the dip stick test (I got it so I could test the hardness, at least get an idea where it was). I did the water change three days ago.
I need to go to work now but I took a video of the tank that I will post when I get home. That way you can get an idea of tank's dynamic... watching a tank gives you a better idea than someone describing it.
Last edited by Trio123; April 25th, 2008 at 12:43 PM.
Here it is... but I understand that figuring out what is killing my catfish is probably a hopeless cause and I may just need to stick to mid-level fish.
Here it is... but I understand that figuring out what is killing my catfish is probably a hopeless cause and I may just need to stick to mid-level fish.
no, understanding what killed your cory may help understand everything... I'm going to post a new thread to get some help...brb
alright, I put put a cry for help, so to speak Hopefully some of the more experienced members can give us a hand trying to figure out what's going on...
So all the other fish are doing fine except the catfish, right?
Your African Knife fish is very sensitive to water quality and if that were the problem I would expect him to show symptoms first.
What size is the Farlowella and Corys in relation to the size of your Knifefish? Knifefish will eat other fish, could he be harassing the other bottom dwellers at night? could he have killed the corys?
Just some thoughts.
Carol
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