armadillo

It's actually really sad. I feel guilty now.

Jacko

Yeah, I don't wonder now why so many die in transport and after getting into the dealers tanks. Sad.

bhcaaron

And yet, people keep buying the cheaper ones instead of the little more expensive tank bred ones. THAT's sad. (with fish and animals in general I suppose)

Isabella

I didn't press "play" because I don't even want to watch it (unfortunately I always cry watching bad things being done to animals, so I can't watch this, sorry). I know that without catching wild fish of all kinds, we wouldn't have this hobby today, wouldn't have our fish and fish tanks, and so on ... But still, I don't like the idea of catching these poor fish and trying to "domesticate" them. Fish living even in the biggest fish tanks and best possible conditions provided by us, will NEVER have the kind of life they'd have in nature. If stopping catching ALL fish in the wild would mean the absolute end of the aquatic hobby, I'd go with it, even though I love my fish very much. But loving also means being able to let go. That's what I'd be willing to do for my fish, and for all fish living in captivity. But knowing human beings ... this will never happen for poor animals, as long as humans exist.

bhcaaron

Actually Isabella, nothing cruel happens in the video other than fishies being taken from their home. There is no mistreating of them at all. They are simplly caught in a net, but in a BIG plastic bag, like the one's you get a the fish shop, but, bigger, filled with pond water, or lake or river, what ever that was.

Isabella

Exactly ... BEGING TAKEN AWAY FROM HOME that they'll never see again, plus MOST of them will die on their way to the "civilized world" , or while in some pet shop, or while in the hands of some inexperienced fish keepers.

Fish that have been bred in captivity have never tasted the freedom of the wild, so when they're bing kept in tanks - as they always have been - they don't know what they're missing. The fish that have been born and raised in the wild, will feel a huge change and shock when caught and forced to live in small tanks, which are NOTHING like their wild homes in nature

bhcaaron

Yeah, I know. Can't argue much there.

Chief_waterchanger

Sorry, but I must disagree with Isabella on this point.

Under the mentality of, "Fish that were captive bred don't know what they're missing" it kinda sounded like you were justifying that over catching wild ones, that would mean keeping slaves would be alright as long as you bred them yourselves, so that they never knew freedom?

Also, we could argue that fish in captivity don't have to worry about predators unless we choose for them to, and they have the worry of too much food in most fishkeeper's tanks rather than not enough, as they probably face in the wild, at times. So under that arguement we could say they have it easier in captivity, much the same way animals in zoos do, if they are not abused.

I understand what you mean though, in a Utopia the fish would roam freely and never be eatten, never suffer from not enough food, never suffer from disease, etc.

Tom

I agree, the fish we have(most of them) have never had to deal with a larger fish trying to eat them(unless we make it so) and they most likely get better meals with us then they do in the wild.

But on a different note, imagine how cool that would be to just go outside and catch a huge net of these little fish and put them in a huge tank and watch them all school like they do.
Tom

Jacko

I completely understand your point, it isn't like all fish live in a wonderful pond full of vibrant plants, they all get along and there is a beutiful rainbow stretching over their water. Nor do they volunteer themselves for a ride on a magical unicorn to the LFS's around the world. It might be sad that they get removed from their natural habitat but otocinclus are abundant and from past experience people know not to overfish.

Truly the ones that survive have a better life in a clean vibrant aquarium than stuck always watching their back and hoping no bigger fish sneaks up on them.

Also just to say, they did drop a few on the rocks while plopping them into the bag.

Tom

Are you sure we have learned to stop overfishing?
Tom

Jacko

Fair enough, we might not have but most coastal areas that provide wild fish do know not to becuase of economy.
We might have but soon enough we should...

bhcaaron

Wow! This thread went SO another direction I was not at all expecting. Back to the topic of where they have a better life. First of all, let me remind everyone THEY ARA ANIMALS! Yes, they deserve good lives too, but, stop talking about them as if they actually "knew" anything. They are not human. (I'm sure I'll get flack on that one, but, oh well. I'll take it one at a time I suppose, understand also, that in a short reply I won't be able to explain my full view)

2nd
I remember these kids I saw a long time ago while visiting my grandfather. My mom and I were taking a stroll and we saw a group of kids, about five or six of them. They were playing around having fun. They were, probably, the most impoverished kids I have EVER seen. Sad little houses, but you know what, they were not sad little HOMES! They may not have had the best life or been protected from every danger, but, MY GOD were they ever happy and smiling. I would have never known, just by their smile, that they were missing anything. In much the same way, animals in the wild may not have a more comfortable life as in our homes, but, like I said, they don't KNOW. Unless someone has been able to communicate with one of them (if so seek medical help) I don't think any one of them can TELL us they were actually happier in our home. No matter how you look at it, they are still animals in CAPTIVITY. If you want to look at it from human perspective, a poor life free is better than a rich captive life.

COBettaCouple

yea, kinda pathetic the lack of respect for life the collectors have.. the attitude carries right on thru to the pet stores.

armadillo

And us. It's us who keep the trade going.

armadillo

Aaron I had no idea that the wild-caught ones were cheaper. I figured what with transport/tranquilisers/food.

bhcaaron

So I've been reading on every book and site I go to. I guess the thought is, and I get it, more money is spent on electricity, food and supplies to raise one than to just buy wild.

COBettaCouple

the fish we find around here are so many generations removed from the wild and it's not so much catching wild fish that is bad, but overcollecting or callous collecting like that vid are the bad thing. if there was just a respect for life, we could all still have our pet fish to love and leave the natural environment intact with wild populations thriving.