CichlidKid55

Hello,I Was just wondering about my new oscar.
His tankmates are 2 Firemouths= 2 inches, 3 jewels= 3 inches,1 featherfin catfish= 1.5 inches, 2 kribensis= 2 inches, 1 red tailed shark= 3 inches, 1 bristlenose pleco= 2.5 inches.
the oscar is about 1.5 inches.
my qeustion is would it be ok if i gave him 2 cm feeders or will he then eat all my other fish. my others eat them aswell. would it be ok?/?
i could move my kribs and bristlenose if needed
thanks

Shawnie

he will eat your other fish with or without the feeders....thats just what oscars do....so keep that in mind

as far as feeders, unless you raise them yourself, I would NOT recommend getting them from fish stores..their feeders are diseased and are kept in horrible conditions..they are NOT healthy to feed to your fish and are a huge cause of hole in the head disease for oscars...feeding him some fresh/frozen beef heart, shrimp, and veggie flakes, are all he needs...you can even make up your own food which is much much cheaper..you can do a search on FL for recipe's ...good luck!

Nick Goody

I would advise removing the Kribs and BN Plec, and the Catfish unless it grows quickly. Feeders from the petstores can be riddled with disease so it is best to quarentine them for a few weeks before feeding.

btate617

Even if you breed your own feeders they just aren't needed.

I hope you have a big tank as that is an interesting mix of fish.
You have some Centrals, some South American, some African.
Honestly I would be careful those jewels don't take over the tank and kill off the others.

Brian

Shawnie

maybe not "needed" per say but a great form of nutrition if raised and fed properly...not to mention, the oscars love the chase

btate617

I would argue the fact there is little to no nutrition in feeders.

A great quality pellet is all that any fish NEEDS. There is little to nothing in feeders in my opinion, and I believe anyone can be sucessful without them. It helps your fish with its predatory skills, and is cool to watch, but lets say you raise your own feeders and feed them a flake food. That flake food you fed your feeders, very little of it stays in that fish, so when your bigger fish eats it there just isnt much nutrition to it.

Brian

Shawnie

I agree with your measure of thinking...hence why store bought feeders are icky ..but my feeders get a diet that humans would like LOL ...beef heart, spriluna , daphnia, fresh shrimp, decapsulate shrimp eggs , golden pearls, and all the veggies you can imagine...plus a multi vitamin ( I make my own foods ) ..I also agree not needed for a good life either...but I was overrun with live bearers and raised them as well as cons as feeders...(cruel to some but life for others )

sirdarksol

I agree with Shawnie. If fish are raised properly as feeders, they have precisely the nutrition the oscars need. That's what they (and many other carnivorous and omnivorous fish) have survived on for centuries/millenia/eons.
Further, not all fish can survive on pellets, and not all fish that can survive on pellets will thrive on pellets. Take puffers, for example. If all you ever feed them is pellets, their beaks will grow too large, and they will eventually be unable to eat. Bettas are another example. A betta raised on a pellet- (or flake-) only diet suffers a much greater chance of constipation, which can easily lead to death.
In fact, if all you feed your fish is a single type of pellet, it's unlikely that your fish will survive to its full potential. The same food every day leads to deficiencies in necessary nutrients, buildups of harmful byproducts, and so on. Very few wild fish eat the same thing every day.
If you talk to a keeper at a high-quality zoo, they'll tell you that the animals' meals change from day to day. They do this for a reason.

Your theory that animals don't retain any of the nutrition they eat would destroy the entire food chain if it were true.
Thankfully, it's not. When a mineral or vitamin is ingested, it does not just go away when it the body uses it. It is incorporated in the body in some way. It may be metabolized into a different form (taurine, for example, is a derivative of cysteine, which can be found in vegies. Herbivores and many omnivores can synthesize it, while many carnivores, like cats) need to eat those herbivores and omnivores to get it in their diets). Sure, some (maybe even much) may be lost and excreted when cells die, but there is still a good amount in the body. If there wasn't, carnivores would die from vitamin, mineral, and amino acid deficiency.

Now we move on to emotional health. As I said above, surviving is not thriving, and a bored fish is definitely not thriving. Many carnivores and omnivores have the need to hunt built into their very beings. Why do you think people hunt for sport? Why do we give our cats little toy mice? Why does the Queensland Zoo make their crocs "hunt" for their daily meals? Why give octopi their meals hidden in various containers? All of this is done to maintain the animals' emotional health. There are certainly ways to do this without feeders, but as a properly-raised feeder also presents excellent nutrition, there's no reason to discount it as an option for this.

CichlidKid55

But If he got home bred feeders would that make him more aggresive and start to attack my other fish, Firemouths, Jewels, featherfin. He is very Peaceful. My Firemouths Own the tank and are alot more aggresive than people say. my oscar gets attacked alot from my firemouths. I thought jewels were peacful For cichlids.
Thanks for all the help again guys.

Nick Goody

Once your fish are fully grown the Jewels will be the most aggressive fish in that tank. They won't pick on the Oscar because he'll be so much bigger than they are, but they will become far more dominant than the Firemouths and others.

sirdarksol

With some fish, it might make a difference, but oscars tend to see anything that fits in their mouth as food. This is their standard state of mind. Giving them feeders can't really make it any worse.
It's not really that they're aggressive, it's that they're hungry. Whether or not they care if another fish is in their territory, if it can be swallowed, it's food.

Shawnie

again, whether you feed the fish feeders or not, they are going to be agressive and will attack and eat whatever they can catch and fit in their mouths (even if they dont fit, if they can catch them, they will eat them slowly and you can actually see the fish's body hanging out of their mouths until they can consume them) so feeders will have NOTHING to do with aggressiveness or safety (or lack there of) the other fish

sirdarksol

HAH! you, Shawnie (apparently by mere seconds, too. I'm good. )

Shawnie

'd by the man ..he musta been practicing his karaaatay lately LOL

CichlidKid55

ok Thank you very much for your help guys

btate617

So I guess saying all fish NEED is a good quality pellet, since the puffer card got pulled, I will explain the way I see it. Beings this was a Oscar question, i will go back and change what I said so there is no confusion, my fault really. All any cichlid needs is a high quality pellet. Before someone brings it up, one pellet is not right for all cichlids. However I do believe a high quality one will do the trick, all the other foods you feed flake, frozen, whatever, are once in awhile, a treat not what your fish is getting by on. And really to simplify it further I will even change this to the staple food for a cichlid should be a high quality pellet. If you own a fish that normally would eat a diet of fish, protein, getting this fish protein can be achieved by other means than feeding it fish. And no I am not a "fish hugger", by all means feed your fish fish, I feed some of my fry to my bigger fish, however I do it to control numbers of fry not to benifit those eating it.


Your theory that animals don't retain any of the nutrition they eat would destroy the entire food chain if it were true.
Thankfully, it's not.
Thankfully in the text of this post it absolutly is 100%.
The original poster asked about making his fish more aggressive by feeding feeders. That is besides the point here as an oscar will try an eat anything that will fit in its mouth if given the chance. The point I was making is feeders, I do believe most know store bought feeders are crap, but even those people at home breeding guppys or cons or whatever, MOST of these people are feeding these fish a basic flake food and when they feed these feeders to their fish they really are not getting much if any nutrition from it. A little protein and thats about it. SHawnie, and please dont take this the wrong way Shawnie, is a very poor example to use here. She would be in the top 1% of a great example of what to feed your feeders. Now would you get the same from her feeders and from someone who is feeding theirs say nutrafin flake only, absolutly not. The other 99% who feed feeders, I believe it was said If fish are raised properly as feeders, surely it can be agreed except for a very few people like Shawnie people do not raise them properly to get out of them what you want. People feed their feeders a crap food, most of which passes through the fish very little is retained when using a cheap food. Like everything else in life you get what you pay for. So I will say with the exception of very few, people feeding feeders are getting very little out of it.

In fact, if all you feed your fish is a single type of pellet, it's unlikely that your fish will survive to its full potential. The same food every day leads to deficiencies in necessary nutrients, buildups of harmful byproducts, and so on. Very few wild fish eat the same thing every day.

We will have to agree to disagree one this one.
But with Very few wild fish eat the same thing every day. Wild fish don't come in contact with the same things everyday.
Most wild fish eat what is presented to them, if it is there they eat it, with the exception of some specialized pedators. Oscars for example, who many people think this fish eats mostly meat in the wild, in the wild oscars are constantly eating vegtable matter and berries and anything else they come in contact with. Not just during the rainy season, but year round. Good thing 99% of the oscars in the hobby today are captive breed and so far removed from a wild fish you would be hard pressed to find where the fish originated from, or we may need to feed them berries and such to bring them to full potential.


I suppose the end result here is, IN MY OPINION, you do not need to feed your fish 14 different types of food to achieve a healthy, full potential fish. I wouldn't feed them a cheap, crappy food....but a high quality food, with other stuff mixed in as a treat if you wish.

Brian

sirdarksol

You are trying to prove your point by inflicting information contrary to what Shawnie and I said upon our argument.
We said that if feeders are given proper nutrition and raised properly, they will contain all of the nutrients that a wild fish needs. When we talk about proper nutrition, we aren't talking about Tetra flakes. We're talking about high quality food (like Omega One) supplemented with other appropriate foods for the fish's species.

I'd like to see a source on your information regarding the feeding habits of wild oscars. I've never seen anything regarding them being primarily herbivorous.

Lastly, saying that something is true does not make it true. I'd also like to see a source regarding your theory that the nutrition that goes into an animal is lost and not passed on to that animal's predator.

btate617

I agree 100% with both you and Shawnie. I am simply saying you two would be in a very small percent of people who would feed feeder fish this way. The vast majority in the hobby do not do this. They feed a crappy low grade flake food and expect their feeders because they are "home grown" to be excellent for the fish. And they aren't, a bit of protein sure but that about it, and giving protein can be achieved in a number of ways without feeders.
I wasn't trying to prove my point, I often have no point, I was giving my opinion on feeders. Not true in a very small percent like yourself and Shawnie, but it is my opinion feeders are not a great source of anything other than entertainment to most in the hobby.
I will go back and reread but I dont think I said oscars in the wild are primarily herbivorous. I thought I said they will eat anything they come in contact with including vegtable matter and berries and such not just fish. And this doesnt just happen during the rainy season as some people may think. Fish will eat what is avaliable to them, if someone reads this fish eats mainly fish in the wild, that doesnt mean that is all they will eat.

Lastly, saying that something is true does not make it true. I'd also like to see a source regarding your theory that the nutrition that goes into an animal is lost and not passed on to that animal's predator.

Feed some feeders at your place a bunch of crap like nutrafin or such. Now feeding those feeders to some of your other fish, what will they get from it? Not much as the feeders you fed are going to poop out most of what you fed them as waste as you are feeding them crap, you cant suck out a bunch of nutrients from something with very little in it. that was my whole point if you aren't putting good things into your feeders, which I assume you agree MOST hobbiest do not, you arent going to get much out of them.

This was never meant as an arguement, i would hope a discussion since this is a forum, It was my opinion on feeders.

Brian