fishbum

TheEssigs

No one said it cant be done, we are saying that it shoudnt be done. People could live in closet, and live there for a long time, if given essentials such as food and water, but is it the right place for people to live?

Butterfly

Congratulations for keeping it alive for so long. I'm sure the twice a week water changes were a contributing factor in his survival.
But you see there is a big difference in surviving and thriving and having a good quality of life. A 30g tank is 12 inches Wide and 36 inches long. He didn't even have room to turn around comfortably. Even doing two water changes a week it would be hard to keep the water parameters(ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates) within acceptable limits. They are really heavy waste producers, it would be equivalent to us living in our toilet bowl.
Sorry but I must respectfully disagree with keeping an Oscar or any other large fish in a 30G aquarium.
carol

Allie

I agree with qhat Butterfly said. Any fish that gets bigger than 10" should be in at least 100g tank....sure they can survive in a smaller tank but shouldn't is right. They need room to move.

fishbum

I hope i didnt offend anyone here...All i am tyring to say is that there are really no set "rules" for keeping fish.As long as you can keep them healthy they will be happy.
Also even with the frequent water changes I really had no problems keeping the water parameters in check.

bhcaaron

Yes there ARE set rules (i.e. ammonia levels, feeding etc). As for keeping him a long time and keeping him healthy and happy, somehow I think you might be a little confused. Any living creature cannot be completely healthy if they are not happy. How could fish have been happy in a tank he didn't have much room to swim in? I have a small room myself, but, thank god I can go outside from time to time because I'd go crazy if I had no more room to walk or live in.

Do you understand what everyone here is trying to tell you? You did great in keeping him a long time. Most of us, however, do not agree with the conditions you kept him in. Whether we choose to agree or disagree, no one can say that the fish had a comfortable life.

Butterfly

No spencer you haven't offended anyone.... but you asked
Even though yours lived just think about all who have tried the same thing and their fish died. Sometimes fish are really resilient and they live through what ever we subject them to but that doesn't mean they are in optimal conditions just because they survived.
Again congratulations because he lived a long life for you but I would hope if you ever get another that you would give him a tank big enough to swim and turn around in comfortably.
carol

MrWaxhead

Well its basically guidlines, not rules, one of the most amazing plant gurus I have ever seen on differnt fish forums is Tom Barr, the guy does it for a living and does it very well, and he has some tanks that he has set up for clients that are WAY over 1" per gallon and they are extremely healthy happy tanks.

Take this one for example its a EI dosed 260 gallon tank with the following fish in it.

Quoted from his site:
Well, seems all anyone cares about are photo's so here's a tank I've done for a client that's been up and running about 2.5 years now using plain old EI, high fish load and relatively slow growers. Fish health is impeccable and Cardinals, Rummy noses, Emperor tetras, 10 different rare plecos species/3 other cats, otto cats, Corys, Rose line barbs, Large Silver hatchets, Noemacilius botia, gold dojo have been gowing and eating well for some time now.

This tank had a dosing fertilizer unit on it, but the folks there dose 2x a week and feed well, I feed and dose once a week, works pretty well.

The glass has never had any algae issues, some BBA appeared initially, adding more CO2 addressed that. There are about 900 fish in here. 500 Cards and 250 Rummy noses, 50 Emperor tetras, 5 newly added Rose line barbs(look like the rummy's for now till they grow). Plain flourite substrate. I used the green geko crypts in the front because on the larger plecos knocking most other plants loose there(it';s the only things that's survived their onslaught). There are 4 A. adonis black satan plecos in here that do extremely well as well as several awesome species of pleco(4 mango, 2 vampire, 4 P leopardus, 2 S aureum, 3 peppermint, 5 S multipunctatus, 2 long fin bushy nose, 4 Gold nugget, 4 gold spot, 4 P pulcher, several others that escape me). There are 40 Cory Panda and 6 C. adlofi. 3 Large SAE's I cannot catch or kill (yet).


The wood is alder and mazanita, the rock is the grey suiko rock from China. Wet dry filter, 1 large Ehiem canister filter, 2xCO2 reactors fed directly into the return pump. One intake in an overflow, one at about gravel level.
Water change:50-70% weekly. GH: 8, KH 5.
CO2 about 8 bubbles a second.

NO3: about 25ppm before water change. PO4 about 2ppm before water change , K+ about 30ppm before water change.

And he has done many more hugely stocked tanks that have been running healthy for very long periods of time.

MrWaxhead

Yes that did say 900 fish in a 260 gallon tank with impeccable health for over 2.5 years.

MrWaxhead

But personally I think overstocking is safer when dealing with lots of little fish then one fish that is way to big for its tank.

bhcaaron

Same goes here. There deffinitely are MANY fish, but, with AMPLE room to thrive in!

Butterfly

Yes Tom Barr is amazing, and all those fish have room to swim and do back flips if they so desire Live plants also make a difference in the condition of the fish and the tank in general. Not having room for a fish to turn around easily is another story completely.

Carol

fishbum

comparing fish to people? really,think about what your saying before you say it.and no , there still arent set rules when it comes to keeping fish.
The thing that gets me about this site is although it can be helpfull,every tank is different ,no two are the same.I hope all the people who are new to this hobby know this.And remember just because something works for one person doesnt mean it will work for you.

Tom

Well thank you. lol
Tom

Allie

Unfortunately MOST times your situation won't work. We had an Oscar that was 10" in a 55g long and he could barely move around in that so how could your be comfy in a 33g?
Say what you will about each situation but I certainly would NOT keep any large fish in anything smaller than our 120g. All pets deserve to have the best conditions.
Our Datnoids get 2 ft big but we have they are 2-3" in the tank now...they grow faster in a large tank.

MrWaxhead

Well I think what most people on this site are trying to accomplish is general basic guidelines to fish keeping so the average person that is thankfully doing some research into keeping there fish healthy find some decent safe guidelines to follow.

And no every tank is different, my tank is overstocked, but its extremely healthy due to good filtration, heavy plant load and steady care. If my fish load was in a tank that was lightly filtered with no plants you would be doing waters changes non stop to keep fish from getting sick.

So in a nut shell, they are basically just saying to people this is the basic guidline, if you follow it you will have a healthy tank, and for the average person that is just starting out its great advice, then they can learn little things that can push there tanks down the road if they so desire.

Me personally though no matter how healthy my water is I will not keep a fish over 50% of my shortest span, ie if my tank is 12 inches wide, I won't own a fish over 6 inches etc. I normally try to go under, in a 12 inch wide tank, i keep all my fish under 5 inch adult size. In a 18 inch wide, no bigger then 8 inch etc. Sure they can live and with care can be healthy, but in my mind, its just to cramped if they break the 50% mark.

MrWaxhead

I mean if I wanted to I am sure I could keep a very large fish alive in a tank that it would barely fit in but I would not want to. For one the fish would in the end not be happy, and for two it just looks bad. I like to watch my fish swim and interact, like having a window into as much as possible there natural settings.

bhcaaron

In the end most of us are concerned with helping the fish be happier as opposed to proving anyone else wrong.