Phesmerga

So, I had an aquarium set up for a while. I did a water change, and then the next day, all my fish died at the same time. The tank hadn't been set up long.. a few months, but was well into the cycling phase. I had two cichlids in the tank as well as a blue gourami (he was WAY to aggresive for my community tank so I moved him into the aggresive tank). They all got along fine. I did the water change, and they were fine for that day. The next day around noon, they all starting spazzing out, and then died. Within seconds of each other they were all dead. I have no idea how or why. I tested my water, and then brought it into the local aquatic store here. They tested the water and nothing came out on any of the tests. The only thing bad was that my pH was low (Which I had put into the tank in case there was an outbreak of ammonia, since I have read a lower pH will help battle it before the last fish died) I have a dropper/water test. It came back negative for ammonia as well. My nitrites and nitrates are null, and I had no chlorine. The worker was baffled, as was I. I decided to let the tank sit a bit, and then I finally added a blue gourami since they are a hardier fish. He did fine for a while. So, I eventually decided to try and get my aggressive tank up and running again, so I put a green spotted puffer in it. He immediatly started flipping out, and went to the surface a few times (but nothing to indicate ammonia poisoning.) He eventually turned completely black and looked horrible. I rushed him to my community tank and tried to help him out... but he just floated around and then died. I tried seeing if my heater was electrocuting them, but its not. The gourami is still fine now in the tank, but I have never seen anything like this happen! I have owned a fish tank for about 9 years now, and have never had anything like this happen. Anyone have any advice??

hkirchen

How big was the water change?

You said you had no nitrates?

Maybe you were in a mini cycle. That just seems bizarre to me. Maybe someone with more experience will come along and recognize your symptoms.

Sorry about your fish, and I hope you figure it out!

Heather

sirdarksol

Welcome to Fishlore.
Sorry to hear that you lost your fish. To quote Ducky from NCIS, "Why does a perfectly healthy man suddenly keel over and die? ... It was a trick question, Mr. Palmer. He doesn't."

There has to have been some cause of the deaths.
I don't think any of these are the issues, but let's just get them out of the way, anyway.
What are the PPM ratings of the following:
Ammonia
nitrite
nitrate
What is the pH?
Temperature?

As I said, I don't think any of the above are the problem, as it's not likely that any of them would cause such simultaneous deaths.

There are two things that I can think of. You thought of one of them. Electricity or chemicals are the only things that I can think of that could cause such immediate problems. Is there any way that something could have been dumped into your aquarium? It would be something really immediately toxic, along the lines of drain cleaner.

How did you test for a short in your electric stuff? That honestly sounds like the most likely problem. It may not be your heater. It is conceivable that anything plugged in could be going into the tank, if there's an exposed wire somewhere.
There should be a way to use one of the electricity meters (I've got one, but I don't know the technical name for it) to test if the water is electrified. If one of you electronics gurus could walk Phesmerga through doing so, that would be great (I only know how to use the thing to test sockets and the like).

If you do this, and you've got an electrical current in your tank, it would just be a matter of unplugging your devices one at a time and testing after each unplug. Then you'd know which one had the short.

Lucy

Hi Welcome to Fish Lore, wish you found us under better circumstances.

I'm really sorry about your fish. How odd that they passed so quickly after a water change. Is there any chance you forgot to put water conditioner on the tap water?
The only thing I can think of is a sudden change in Ph.
Is your tank planted? If not, there should be at least some nitrate reading in a cycled.

I'm pretty sure the green spotted puffer does better in brackish water. That may have been what happened to him.

Good luck

Peterpiper

Hi and welcome.
Sorry for your losses.
For testing the electrical equipment you use a multi meter.
I phoned a sparkie that works for us.
To test the equipment properly, you need a proper tester that the equipment can be pluged into while it is in the tank, so you would be best to take it to a sparkie or have one come around and test it for you.
Do you have earth leakage protection for the house?
What was used to do the water change?
I ask as the fish started to die after the water change.
Could the bucket or what ever was used have been used for something else and this poisoned the tank?

Phesmerga

Well, I took out everything electrical that could have possibly been hurting them. I know how to test things with a multimeter, but didn't feel the need too, since I was just going to try and swap everything out. My best guess now is that there had to be some sort of contaminate in the bucket I used. The weird thing is, I did a water change in my 55 gallon the same day, and none of the fish in that tank were harmed. In fact, after the puffer was in that tank for about an hour, he was healthy again. (I thought he had died because he did not move for over half an hour. I poked him with a net to take him out of the tank and he curled his tail. So I let him stay in the water and eventually he made a full recovery. Today he is perfectly fine.) I'm going to try and put another fish besides a gourami in the water. Maybe is has something to do with the fish breathing in the water itself.... which is possibly since the gourami comes up for air. But the last one in the tank died as well. So I am going to try and clean out the bucket with some vinegar and rinse it out well. It's possible soap might have gotten into the bucket since I fill it in the bathtub. A shower poof was hanging over top and may have dripped soap into the bucket. It's odd it only effected the aggresive tank though. I've done another water change since then, the gourami seems fine. I think it's safe to say it had to be a contaminate in the bucket. Nothing else makes sense. Green spotted puffers do better in brakish water but can live fine in freshwater... people go back and forth on that one. The only reason I wanted to transfer him to the other tank is that he is growing up and will soon turn aggressive towards the community fish. It's only a matter of time. It could have been possible there was some sort of contaminate in the filter. I had rinsed it out, but it's still possible. I'm thinking of cleaning out the whole tank and re-doing it in case there is any sort of toxin in it. Hopefully I'll be able to get the puffer in there soon. He is a bit of a drama queen, maybe he just gets really stressed out in the new tank... I will try putting another fish in there that is a water breather and see how they fair. Oh, about the earth leakage protection, I have no idea. I have a rented apartment, newly built a year ago. I would venture to say yes, as where the electrical codes where I live are VERY high. The house I used to rent had to be inspected every year and there were to be no more than one thing plugged into each outlet and no extension cords were allowed. I guess it makes sense that some landlords in my area have some very slummy places, and they don't want a bunch of college kids burning to death. I think I will try and put one of my molly's in the tank and see how she does. Hopefully the tank is okay now... I'll keep an eye on her while she is in there. The gourami is still doing fine at day 3, but like I said it could be because it's an air breather.

Phesmerga

Oh, I was just canceling out the nitrites and nitrates from the first post because they tested fine with both my kit and the store's kit. Everything was in a well appropriate level. I can't remember the exact numbers for everything.. I can test them again soon and let you know how they come out again. But everything was in an appropriate level. I think it had to be some type of poisoning. I also had realized I had forgotten to raise the pH back up before I placed the puffer in! Duh! I feel dumb for that one. I'm raising the pH back to a 7... it was only around a 6 (for the ammonia in case there was any.) It's posssible the pH difference hurt him. Now I feel bad cause I could have possibly killed him. He's the cutest thing ever haha. He seems a little scared when I come around now, but still looks for food when I approach the tank, and he is still very active.

Lucy

Thanks for the update. I'm glad things seem to be going well.

capekate

If you are able to rule out any other possibilities, I would have to guess it had something to do with the PH level in the tank. Fluctuating Ph levels can do a number on fish. You said that you lowered yours to 6 and I wonder how quickly the PH dropped. 6 is pretty low and the water acidic and it may have had an affect on your more sensitive fish.
Also mentioned in your posts was that your water tests were fine. But you did mention the reason for lowering the PH was to turn your ammonia less toxic if any in the water. Was there any reason to assume there may have been ammonia? Was your tank cycled at all? Or were you showing some signs of ammonia and nitrite in your water tests?
Using chemicals to lower or raise the PH levels are very iffy and if not done exactly as directed can cause problems for your fish's health.
I wish you the best of luck with the remainder of your fish and hope that you find out what went wrong.

Peterpiper

I can see that lowering PH reduces ammonia, but at a PH 7 or lower you will have no ammonia, you will have ammonium which will not harm your fish. Above PH 7 and the ammonium starts to revert back to ammonia

sirdarksol

My big concern regarding the thought that pH caused this is that, according to the original post, the first batch of fish all died very quickly and within seconds of each other. Even with a huge pH swing (like from 8 to 6), it is unlikely that all of the fish would die within seconds of each other. It's also unlikely that some time within 24 hours of a water change, the pH just suddenly goes through a two point pH shift. If the fish had reacted during or immediately after the water change, this would seem more likely.
Likewise, the puffer reacted almost instantly on being submerged. Puffers' bodies are made to handle changing water conditions, as the water in estuaries doesn't mix evenly, creating currents of different qualities.

I'm not saying that pH isn't the cause, I'm just not seeing it as a likely possibility (doesn't necessarily mean I'm right, though )


Ammonium is harmful to fish. Not as harmful as ammonia, but harmful (otherwise, animals like us wouldn't excrete ammonium as waste).

Phesmerga

I tried lowering the pH before the last fish died because I was worried that is was possible ammonia poisoning. The water tested at an acceptable amount, but I couldn't determine anything else that would kill them like that. I did not think to test the pH because the water I was putting into the tank was basically the same water that was in there. Upon putting water in the bucket, I tested the pH. It was very very yellow (acidic) so much that it was WAY off the charts. Something acidic must have been in the bucket, and must have been what killed the fish. I didn't test the water before putting pH down in the water because I was trying to save the fish in case of ammonia. While the pH difference that fast didn't kill the fish automatically, it took a while to kill them. It's possible a lot of this acid got caught in the filter media as well, because I had changed it at the time of the water change, and was checking it right before the fish died. The fish in there is doing fine now, and I have been slowly raising the pH more.

Puffers are more of a brakish fish. A sudden pH change from a high 7 to around a 6 could be very dramatic for it. They do better around a high pH close to an 8 or even more do to them being more accustomed to salt water. The puffer didn't instantly start being hurt, just seemed to flip out and then about 30 mins. later turned black and was very lethargic, which could have been caused by pH. Once I get the pH back to the proper level I will place him in there again. The other fish has been in the tank for days and is ok.