Matt318

I was hoping to get your expertise on a fish related issue. Unfortunately two of my fish have died and the others are not looking well. The only thing that I have done that falls outside of the normal routine is that i topped off the water level because it was getting low. I put in somewhere around a half gallon (at most) of tap water into the tank. I had done this once previously with no issues but this time I noticed the fish were listless the next day and laying on the bottom of the tank, and not eating. I thought maybe they had chlorine poisoning, so I added a few droplets of tap water conditioner which is supposed to break down heavy minerals and chlorine. When I got home from work after doing that in the morning, two of the mollys were dead and the other 3 as I mentioned are not looking well. Did I do something wrong or is there anything else I should be thinking of to care for them?

pinkfloydpuffer

Is your tank fully cycled? Did you add dechlorinator before putting the water in?

sirdarksol

Hmmm... Not sure.
If the chlorine poisoning had already damaged the gills, it could be that they died from that, even though you dechlorinated the water later on.

However, laying on the bottom doesn't seem to be chlorine poisoning. That usually causes them to gasp for air at the surface.

Iron waffle

Did you notice any body shape changes, sores, worms?

Matt318

I couldn't find anything wrong with them physically by looking at them Gilbert. As far as the tank water, it was fully cycled, the tank was about a month and a half along, with 5 fish in it (10 gallon tank). I had done a pH test which came out fine a few days ago. The water I added was not decholrinated when I added it, it was just regular tap water, and about a half gallon. I do remember a few of them at the top getting air, but I don't remember if that was before or after the tap water addition, sometimes they would just do that randomly but not often.

Their conditions were simply that they didn't eat and barely moved. Then I found two dead this afternoon after adding the decholrination droplets in the morning hoping to solve the issue. Currently one of the surviving three is in a corner and not moving at all, and looks as if he will rest in peace soon. It is quite sad and frustrating to watch them suffer this mysterious illness =(

Thank you for your thoughts so far.

pinkfloydpuffer

That's quite the conundrum. I'm no disease expert myself, but there's definitely something going on there. The only possibilities then are the chlorine having some amazingly drastic effect, or some other sort of disease. Not sure though. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Iron waffle

I wold say ammonia poisoning is the culprit. It damaged their gills, so they couldn't breathe. From your descriptions i am almost positive.

Sorry for your loss, it happens to the best of us, nothing that you could have told you until it was too late.

Matt318

How would ammonia poisoning happen Gilbert? From the tap water? The decholrination drops? Or something else?

I am new at this, but I have a profound love for marine life so this loss is really weighing on me. I ask because I don't ever want to make these kinds of mistakes again.

pinkfloydpuffer

Could you test your water right now to see if it is ammonia poisoning?

Iron waffle

Actually, ammonia poisoning happens when ammonia levels are to high. Example, you overfeed your fish, as the food is left, it turns to ammonia. Fish produce ammonia, not sticking to water changes. Chloramines in tap water also have ammonia. A lot of factors.

It is a good idea to leave the water out for 24 hours in a bucket with dechlorinator to eliminate these chemicals.

Again, sorry for your loss

Matt318

Unfortunately I don't have that particular test at home and the stores are closed already today. I will get that testing kit the first thing in the morning though. Is there a solution that will help high ammonia levels if that test reveals that is the case?

Fishies-for-me

Was th new water the same temp as the tank??..You can call the water utility in your town to ask if they add chlromines...my town dosn't but some do.

sirdarksol

Never done this. Never had a problem with fish getting sick. The dechlorinator works almost instantly, and it takes awhile for the chlorine (by the way, folks, I use this word to mean both chlorine and chloramine unless it's important to note the difference) to actually do any harm.

I'm still baffled by the "laying on the bottom" thing, unless the fish were already nearly gone. Ammonia poisoning and chlorine poisoning both often result in the fish gasping for air at the top of the tank.

Matt318

I have went out and bought a ammonia test this morning, and tested the water. And found that it doesn't have any traces... I repeated the test again to make sure. I stayed up with the fish through most of the night and had to net off one of them from the filter intake twice, because he was so weak. Today they are still alive, although rather listless. I guess at this point it is anyone's guess. Maybe the tap water addition did have high chlorine and chloramine and did damage to them in some way and then the ammonia went away on its own as the bio filter did its work?

Regardless, I don't know what else I can do for them but wait (and keep them off the filter intake...). I appreciate everyone's advice and concern, this forum is certainly a wealth of compassion and knowledge. Thank you.

sirdarksol

It takes awhile for the bio filter to build up enough bacteria to consume ammonia. If there's no ammonia now, there wasn't any yesterday or two days ago.
However, biofilters don't do anything to chlorine/chloramine, and ammonia tests don't necessarily recognize chloramine as ammonia.
I'm really betting on chlorine(chloramine) poisoning now. There are, I'm sure, other possibilities, but the timing on this is really conspicuous.
I'm sorry I didn't mention this before you went to the store, but do you have an airstone? Aerating the water may help your poor little guys breathe a bit easier.
Also, some Melafix will help stave off secondary infections, if you can find it. Vitachem will help them rebuild their bodies.

Matt318

I don't have an airstone, but I am going out to purchase one right now. I will also look at the other products you mentioned. Thank you very much for your advice and help!

Fishies-for-me

I never "age" my water either...I make sure the temp is the same and add declor into the bucket ...stir it up and dump into the tank.... I have used different declors and all of the ones I have used are supposed to work instantly to remove the baddies.

Matt318

Well I put in the airstone, and one of my molly's seems to like it as he lays (rather listlessly) right by it. I had to order the other products you mentioned, as vitachem is not available locally for me. Thanks again!

sirdarksol

You're welcome. I'm lucky that I've got a half a dozen fish-specific stores within twenty miles of me, so if I've got a fish emergency, I can find almost anything I need nearby. There's one tiny little store that's the only one that carries VitaChem. Another one is the only one that sells the full range of Python products, etc...
Good luck with everything. I hope they all do well.

Matt318

My update is unfortunately a sad one, but one with a few more questions I hope that some may answer. Two more of the mollys died out of the original five, leaving only a single female left alive. I have added an airstone to the tank, added vitachem droplets to the water (removed the carbon filter of course) and also been adding melafix antibacterial every day for four days now because she has pop eye. After the first day of the antibacterial regimen her eye started to appear better, but by the third day it went back to worse, along with the other eye! In addition both eyes look cloudy. The female also swims at a 45 degree angle and spends most of her time on the bottom. I don't even know if she can see food well enough to eat. I will try to summarize my questions below.

The female is alone in the tank now and is very afraid of anyone passing by, I am not sure of the conditions in the tank that lead to the other's deaths or her current eyepop/cloud eye, so I am hesitant to add other fish. Is this correct or would she be better off with some new friends to calm her nerves?

The airstone is happily bubbling away, but I know little about the device. Is there any downsides to it? The caresheet indicates that popeye can be caused by oxygen oversaturation, which made me wonder if her eyes are being damaged by the airstone.

Also according to the caresheet, both popeye and slanted swimming could be 'the dreaded fish TB' but has little to say about what that means or how to fix such a case?

The melafix antibacterial solution says to shake well, which I do. I then dose out 5 ml into the water. The airstone bubbles however make the solution a bubbly foam on top of the water. It says nothing about turning off airstones before adding, but will the solution diffuse the same?

Finally, I do feel very bad about my novice mistakes that cost the lives of four fish, and I am trying very hard to take good care of my last one, but I can only guess at the conditions afflicting her, and am worried that I am simply prolonging her suffering?

Thank you for any kind replies.

Fishies-for-me

so sorry you are having troubles with your fish..as far as oxygen oversaturation i very much doubt that you can get this by running airstones in your tank....rather this would be from bubbling pure oxygen into the water. ( just my opinion) .. at this point I would not add any more fish to the tank. You will run the risk of them getting sick and or dying to. What are you water parameter readings now?? I would think that the problems were caused to start with by poor water conditions in a newer tank...things can fluctuate a bit before settleing down and being fully cycled. At this stage if you feel it is best to euthanize the fish then that is not a bad thing . If you do euthanize or lose this fish I think I personally would tear the tank down ...strerilize and start over as you do not know what killed the fish. If you do this then be sure to cycle the tank before adding fish...I wish you good luck with whatever you decide.. I know right now it doesn't seem like much fun but once you get things straightened out fishkeeping is very rewarding. I have 5 tanks ( 36 gal ...29 gal...2 x 5 gall and 1 1/2 gal ) and I love my tanks....again ..good luck.

Lucy

Hi matt, I'm really sorry you've lost fish. Don't be hard on yourself, it wasn't intentional and we all learn from our mistakes.

I've just read through this thread, but please forgive me if I mention anything that's already been suggested.

I noticed when you topped off the tank, you added a few droplets of dechlorinator afterward.....that's usually ok if you haven't waited too long, but I'm wondering if you added enough, too much is better than too little.

Letting the water sit for 24 hours is said to dissipate the chlorine, but not chloramines or other harmful heavy metals that may be in your tap water.
Dechlorinators do more than just remove chlorine.

If I'm not mistaken Melafix being an anti bacterial medication not only goes after harmful bacteria but can also destroy the beneficial bacteria in your tank.

Good Luck, I hope things get better for you soon.

Matt318

Oh my goodness. Amazing news!!! First, I turned off my air stone, and for whatever reason her eye seemed to get better. Then after a week of using melafix i changed out about a 1/3 of the water. When I got home later on after changing the water I SAW LITTLE BABIES!!!! Now I'm going to read all the threads on fry to do the right thing with these new ones. Thanks for all the advice so far.


P.S. In my excitement I forgot to reply to those who had answers and questions. My mistake was in fact putting in tap water, and dechlorinating it the next day. =( As far the airstone, I'm not sure why turning it off helped her pop eye, maybe it was forcing the medicine to the top, and not allowing it to diffuse into the water?? I'm not sure, but she seems a whole lot better after giving birth. Although sadly she still swims at 45 degree angle.

I've put in a shallow bowl like thing in hopes the babies will take shelter in it and stop getting lost in the rocks. I am going to search for some (fake) floating plants tomorrow to also encourage them to come out from the rocks. I am worried that I can only find four that more may be beneath the rocks lost somewhere.