sirdarksol

Until human beings cease to see animals as soulless objects that are here for our amusement and convenience, this kind of thing will be accepted. I'm not just talking about fish, but dogs, cats, reptiles, etc...

I have met people who claim to be in touch with nature and/or Mother Gaia, and yet see nothing wrong with keeping a betta in a tiny bowl, a guinea pig in a 20g tank (they need a ton of room to run around), a puppy or kitten in a 2x2 cage for 23 hours of the day, etc... This is, sadly, just our culture. Work to change the culture, and you'll be working to change the circumstances these pets are kept in.

Alessa

I will repeat the story i already posted on the post "why wont people listen"

I go to a Jesuit Catholic university in chicago....

I was in genetics class discussing ethics and wheater or not it was good to experiment with "humans" and stem cells and all that for human benefit. 70% of the class said NOOOOO!. Then, the professor turned it around and asked if it was fair to do the same to animals, again, to our benefit. Most of the class said yes and then I stood up (with one of my friends and said:

"the fact that a monkey or a pig or a mouse cant talk dosent mean that they dont feel what is happening to them. It is just as inhumane or more than if it was done to a person because at least we can say "ouch it hurts" a rat is a fully developed life form, a 1 week blastocyst isnt".

Then, this pre-nurse girl stood up and said:

"So... youre saying that it is OK to kill babies for stem cells but it isnt ok to kill an animal How can u say that? they are animals, thats it. They dont have a soul, they dont reason and they dont matter. as long as it is to our benefit it has to be done, Otherwise, how are we gonna advance in technology?"

then I said:

"how do you know they dont have "a soul", anyways, I dont even know why we are talking about soul on a science class"


then the prof said:

"because religion is an important aspect in human life......."

then I interrupt and say:

"go and ask gallileo for his oppinion".


****Silence in the lecture hall******


Like sirdarksol said, as long as humans keep seeing animals as soulless objects, nothing will ever change...


btw, cant we organize something as FL memebers and show our case to PETA about these inhumane things?

Devon

"The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" ~Jeremy Bentham

You're absolutely right. People are constantly arguing this stupid pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo about an animal's ability to communicate or think or do certain things that humans do... or the semi-religious cop-out of souls or no souls... what difference does it make, in the end? They are living creatures, with a central nervous system that gives them the ability to feel PAIN, ILLNESS, & INJURY... that the argument could ever go past that simple fact constantly amazes me.

PETA may not be the best place to petition to, but I really can't think of anyone better. Do the Chinese have any groups of citizens that are interested in animal welfare? I'm sure that just because their government doesn't offer animal protections, that no one there can see how awful this is too...

sirdarksol

The funny thing about the stem cell research is that nothing even has to die for human stem cell research. Stem cells can be harvested from placentas of healthily-born babies, and yet our president has attempted to block that line of research. On the other hand, non-human research involves the death of many, many animals (why go through the extra work of harvesting the difficult way when it isn't considered unethical to do the easy thing?)

I really don't like the idea of going to PETA. Until they stop supporting actions that I would consider terrorist in nature (not to mention really stupid, like the farm-raised mink they released into the wild, where they all died of starvation, exposure, or predation, or the building they burned because it did "genetic experimentation," when it was a storehouse for the seedlings of an extremely endangered tree), I cannot support them, nor do I trust them to do the right thing.

Alessa

Ok...

isnt there ANYONE? gosh! this world is so...

Chief_waterchanger

The problem is that most people do not care as much as they profess to. I mean, if you honestly think about it...

We can all say that animal abuse is not good, or that it should be stopped... but how many of us (myself included) have spent time really working for the cause, beyond posting in forums, signing a petition, or writing a letter that probably won't be read. I know that I've never spent money out of my pocket (or anyone else's) to stop mistreatment of animals, other than taking in 2 strays and sending atleast 3 more to the humane society, where they were probably youthanized.

(I know that most will view that as a flame-worthy post, but for those that give actual deep thought to it will see my meaning and see just how sad but true it is. Also notice that in the beginning sentence I said MOST people, not all. Hope the intended point got across.

livetowin

Chief_Waterchangers right no matter how much people try to stop something somebody else will keep doing it. It will always be a never ending problem in every society

MissMTS

I definetly understand what you mean. Sometimes I actually feel guilty because I know that there is more that can be done to stop animal cruelty and that I could be helping a lot more. The only thing that I contribute is taking great care of all of my animals, and I have called the SPCA twice: once for a lady who was starving and neglecting her horses, and another time for a lady who was keeping at least 100 dogs in tiny cages in her backyard. I think that if I knew how to help more I would, but honestly, the problem sometimes seems so big for me to tackle on my own. My husband and I have a dream. One day we want our dance studio to hold benefits. We will have a show, and all proceeds will go to the charity of our choice (knowing us, probably something to help animals). Sometimes I think the public needs to know of different ways to get involved and ways that they can actually make a difference.

Chief_waterchanger

Maybe start a group in your area. Whether you go to the library and post it on a bulletin board, or a social/networking site with a group specific for your area (craigslist, myspace,facebook,etc) or whatever the advertising media may be (many free advertising choices out there.) I think that starting a group, or researching with something as simple as a google search for, "animal rights groups: <enter your town/area>", would be a great beginning step towards curbing animal mistreatment in your area. (I love your idea with holding benefits at your studio.)

Once you get a group started, which admittedly, would probably be slow. You could become a liason to other people wanting to do the same in their area. With the proper use of your resources you could invest less time of your own than you might think and get the ball moving big time. Maybe advertise at the senior center (bunch of old folks all fired up about politics and wanting to prove that old folks can make a difference, as well as a large percentage looking for something to do to enrich their lives), dog park, elementary, middle, and highschools (kids go home and tell mom and dad and you could get some people join your cause that way.) If your pet shops would let you post a flyer that would be a great source.

But you can see those great ways to advertise if you would want to start a group. (Using retired folks that have management experience as campaign managers while you deal with your obligations at work and help when you can would be, in my opinion, a great move.)

livetowin

yea there can be a lot of things organized within your local community however many people want cruelty to stop on a global scale but its a start right

MissMTS

Thanks for the advice Chief. It all sounds a little overwhelming, but at the same time, very do-able. Maybe in a couple years when I have more time to dedicate, I can look into something like that

Honestly, I see your point, but I believe that something cannot be stopped on a global level, unless locals with in a community unite together. It can build from there and be taken to a national level eventually with enough with enough hard work and dedication. Any large monumental movement that has happened in history has started with a small group of people banding together in an effort to stand up for what they believe in. I think that to surrender because the problem seems to big for you is not always the right decision. Just a small example: People don't recycle because they think that their individual contribution won't make a difference, but if everyone contributed and nobody had that mindset a difference will be made. If everyone has the "let somebody else who is more powerful handle it attitude" we will never be able to change the society that we live in.

livetowin

Yea Your right thats how most companies and groups start is with a couple of people who won't give up. They win support from their neighbors and community members and the local govt. etc until most people on earth learn about it. Something can possibly be done but it will take a lot of heard work and determination.

sirdarksol

Chief: Don't belittle your taking strays in or turning them over to the pounds. Yes, it's horrible that they likely were euthanized, but the number of young that were not born to be further mistreated cannot be ignored.
As far as your question, I'm not going to brag about anything, so I'll just leave it at "I'm comfortable with the level of work I am doing to help with this problem."

But you're right about the caring being the problem. However, I don't think this is something that will always be a problem. Human society is growing. The human attitude is changing. Consider that, in the past, most people wouldn't care that a guy shot a dog who simply wasn't pulling its weight, or declaw/defang a bear in order to have it fight a pack of dogs.
This is why discussion is important, not just with those who agree with you (in fact, these discussions have little impact, other than to provide solidarity), but with those who disagree and those who aren't sure what they believe. This is how culture grows and changes.

livetowin

Good Point Sol at least you are trying to do something

Devon

I am an animal rights activist on the local level... I just wish I could reach as far as the keychain fish in China.

Amanda

As a former humane society worker (7 yrs. of experience) & current volunteer at a vets office & wild rehabber trainee - I know how overwhelming it can be to "speak for the silent" (my motto). But as overwhelming as it maybe for one person, and it may be hard at times - those are still lives that are being saved. Spay/neuter programs are being put into effect in many areas & humane societies are instilling rules that all animals adopted MUST be spayed/neutered. If everyone does their part in spay/neutering - the numbers of strays will be drasticly cut. But everyone has to do their part.

fishbum

Very Well Put!

livetowin

Every little bit helps in these situations