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Old September 5th, 2007  
Moderator
 
Re: Wilhelm's Tank

[quote=b0n3ZA ]
Quote:
I think you guys are over reacting a bit when it comes to goldfish. They are perfectly capable of thriving in the oddest conditions.
They are capable of surviving the oddest conditions.
Without seeing your fish, though, we have no way of knowing if they're actually thriving. A small pond with no output for waste, other than you periodically overfilling the pond, and no input of food, I doubt that they're thriving. I know a guy who kept a goldfish in a 200g tank without feeding/changing water/adding water, and the fish lasted for months. Just because the goldfish lived, doesn't mean that it was thriving. Goldfish are carp, which means you're right about one thing, they can survive quite a bit. They are very hardy fish.
What we usually mean when we're talking about the goldfish not being hardier than tropicals is that they can't just live in a bowl with no filtration. They put out far too much waste for that to be a sure thing. Yes, some goldfish will survive in such a bowl, but a human being might survive being shot center mass by a .45.
sirdarksol is offline  
Old September 5th, 2007  
Fish Master
 
Re: Wilhelm's Tank

Tim, all I've got to say is you write so well. Nice to bring this point up with tact, dignity, objectivity and calm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timg
and on a closing note for this discussion, I have a little motto that I have lived by all my life, and Bryn, you would be well advised to adopt it:

"Don't knock it unless you've tried it!" When you have been keeping fish for as long as some of us have, you will realise that things are not always black and white, right or wrong. Sometimes we all have surprises, and nature has a wonderful way of intervening without invitation. The world of fish keeping is still evolving and we are all still learning. New breeds are being found, developed and bred, new methods are being found to enhance, improve or protect species. You should never have a closed mind with fish, because they adapt and change all the time.

If a word of advice is needed, then it's open your mind to the possibilities, and learn from others. Never criticize others, but evaluate their information and accept or reject it by choice, not arguement. Listen to the advice given on here, because as a rule, it's sound and good advice. Join a conversation but be thoughtful about how you respond. It is very easy to upset someone, especially if they are trying their hardest against difficult situations, which many newbies on here are. No-one has all the answers, no-one knows everything, everyone can be informed of mistakes and we all make them. It's the way they are informed that can make a friend or enemy.

When I was your age, I was very busy with earning a living and bringing up children, but still found the time for pets and fish. I didn't have the wealth of knowledge available today, I never had a computer and the internet was still in it's infantsy. I learned the only way I could, through making my own mistakes. You have a wonderful advantage here. You don't need to make mistakes, because we already have. You can ask anything, and somewhere, someone has the answer. This is how the forum works, and it works well. It is just about the largest and most active of it's kind. It relies on members being considerate, polite and courteous to each other, and this works very well. Young and old alike come here for advice and to offer advice and help, let's not spoil it with a silly disagreement.

My views are well known to the members here, and my talents and abilities are, I believe, respected. By the same token, I respect others' knowledge and abilities. We don't condemn each other, but work together to solve a multitude of problems for each other. If you don't like my setup, then that's your preference, but why make it personal? I responded to your comments not through anger but through knowledge and that's my tool. I state facts because I know them to be facts that I can prove, not because I read it somewhere or someone else said it. I have worked very long and very hard to build my home into a wrap-around aquarium because that's what we wanted. I don't force or tell others to do the same! I never recommend things that I don't know about, and am always very careful how I word my responses to anything. Whenever there is a response to be made, it is to help or offer advice to solve a problem or just reassure or praise the poster.

Don't knock what you haven't tried, it'll do you well in the long run!
armadillo is offline  
Old September 6th, 2007  
Fish Bum
 
Re: Wilhelm's Tank

thank you sirdarksol.

"Don't knock it unless you've tried it!"
ive tried it. i've had friends and family who've also tried it. that is simply how i feel and most ppl who ever like to keep nice fish know that gold fish arnt great fish to keep if you like personality or a good range of colour.
this is why i have put the links.
Timg im not paying your gold fish out, i actually think its kool that you have them in with nice angels. just stating that its best! not to keep the two differnt types together as if you read anywhere you'll see im not just making up rubbish.
And just because people do it and think there better then others who dont or havent. doesnt mean we cant .... its because we wont because we actually have love for our fish and only want whats best for them like you should. again telling us you have is great but not reccommended to people to actually do.
Thank you again.
Bryn is offline  
Old September 6th, 2007  
Fish Keeper
 
Re: Wilhelm's Tank

Quote:
its because we wont because we actually have love for our fish and only want whats best for them like you should.
Comments like this are where thought comes in. This could very easily be taken as offensive, incinuating that I don't care about my fish! I will ignore the comment though, since everyone on here knows just how much I do care about my fish, and the way others treat fish too. Please start to take more care over your wording of replies. If you were to visit my home, you would see just how much time and devotion I have for my fish, and thoughts like that would never enter your head again!

When your fish start to respond in the way mine do, and return the love and attention you give them by spontaneous breeding, feeding from your hand, looking when you enter the room, swimming up to the glass to welcome you when you approach, swimming between your fingers when you are trying to do some maintenance and swimming into the net when you put it into the tank, waiting for you to move them, then you have their trust, then you KNOW that you are doing the right thing for them, then you KNOW the fish are happy. Until then, be a gentleman and leave your personal feelings out of this type of thread.
timg is offline  
Old September 6th, 2007  
Moderator
 
Re: Wilhelm's Tank

This is precisely what I experienced when I first had my koi and goldfish in my community tank. They grew to recognize my footsteps and anticipated me entering the room. (They would actually ignore if my wife entered the room). They were happy in that tank.
As I've said before, it wasn't temperature or that other fish were picking on the koi and goldfish, it was the fact that they outgrew the tank that made me move them.

My post was not directed at timg's methods. It was directed at the idea that it was ok to let goldfish live in algae-choked water with no filtration, food, or care. From what I've read of timg's posts, both here and elsewhere, he cares for his fish and his aquariums very well. Everybody's methods are different. I'm often the one who's pointing out that it's not that goldfish need cold water, it's that they naturally have a water temperature that changes pretty drastically with the seasons, whereas tropical fish usually have a more or less constant temperature.

It's obvious that you both love your fish, and that you both have methods that you have established, and more importantly, that work, so there's really no need to argue about it.
sirdarksol is offline  
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