estebo

Hello,

I have a 6 gallon Eclipse 6 tank. The longest I've gone not doing a half tank water change is 2 weeks. Every time I do a water change I add API Stress Zyme and Stress Coat. I also have the appropriate amount of fresh water salt. However I just started adding the salt two weeks ago.

The longest any of the mollies have lived is about 2 or 3 weeks. Why do they keep dying?

Lucy

Hi welcome to Fish Lore

I'm sorry you're having problems with your tank.

It looks like you have a couple of things going on.

Your tank is overstocked, your tank isn't cycled and your fish are incompatible.

Your betta should be in the tank by himself. They don't normally do well with tank mates especially in such a small tank.

Your mollys would do best in a 20g tank (with out the betta)

If you have a common pleco, they can get huge and are big waste producers. It's recommended that they be kept in 55 gallons.

Do you know your readings for ammonia nitrite and nitrates?
I see by your aquarium info that you don't know about the nitrogen cycle. Here's a link explaining it.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

You should consider returning some fish or getting them seperating and into the proper size cycled tanks.

Good luck.

bluealuefish

Hi! Welcome to fishlore!

Lucy has excellent advice. Bettas really do much better on their own and may be aggressive to other fish. I would suggest getting another tank for your mollies and algae eater. You should also figure out which algae eater you have so you'll know how to care for it properly.

Adding the stress zyme is good. I personally don't think the salt is necessary but I guess it wouldn't hurt as long as you're following the instructions on the package.

Read up on the nitrogen cycle as that is probably what's killing your mollies. Basically decomposing fish poop and fish food produce ammonia which is toxic to fish. You need to "cycle" your tank which means you need to grow the proper bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. Nitrite is also toxic. You should get a water test kit (API liquid master kit is recommended) to determine your water chemistry. A cycled tank will have zero ammonia and nitrites and less than 40 nitrates. A cycled tank means that there will be enough bacteria to process the toxins out of the water being produced by your fish.

Since you already have fish, the tank will naturally cycle but you should do small water changes daily with the stress zyme to lower the ammonia and nitrites in the water. Even small amounts can stress out and kill your fish. The beneficial bacteria will grow in your biowheel and gravel so don't disturb those. And never wash anything with soap.

You'll learn lots here, just read the beginner's guides on fishlore. Best of luck!

Oh yeah.. I've never used these personally but you can also use tetra safe start to help with the cycle and Prime is a good water conditioner that will reduce the ammonia. Just don't use a product called Cycle as it is the wrong type of bacteria.. it dies off and you'll have to use the product continuously.

soldieroffortune1974

Whoa..........40 nitrates is way tooooooooo high, 20 is the maximum non-lethal amount fish can sustain. Anything over 20 causes the gills to burn and be unable to remove oxygen from the water.

20 nitrates.......ok..............40 nitrates = dead fish

bluealuefish

Oh okay, oops! bad memory. Mine is always at 10ppm. I'm still a fish bum! Just trying my best to help.

Lucy

bluealuefish, Thanks for catching the salt.
From what I've read pleco's don't tolerate salt.

soldieroffortune1974

You just need to keep in mind,that nitrates are still toxic,they're just not AS TOXIC in low quantities....that's why you remove them with water changes to keep them from building up,and to keep algae from forming.Algae loves nitrates,nitrates are abundant in fertilizers due to large amounts of ammonia. These nitrates are bad to have in excess quantities in our rivers,lakes and streams. Same for the aquarium.

Below 20 is ok, anything above 20ppm is lethal.

estebo

So I did some more reading and found out the type of algae eater I have and updated my tank info, also I learned that my tank is actually 6 gallons and the filter info which is also updated in the aquarium info.

From the reading I've done on betas it's ok keep other fish with it as long as the beta isn't aggressive towards them.

From observing the beta he's rather docile and doesn't chase or bother the mollies any more than the mollies do with each other. The mollies actually chase each other around more than the beta does. He usually just keeps to himself.

From the research I've done by reading the nitrogen cycle and the related links at the bottom is it possible that the problem could be from doing 50% water changes as opposed to 20% and the tank not being fully cycled?

Also if it's not fully cycled how come the beta is still alive after putting him in after 2 weeks, and why is the algae eater doing ok? Are they just more hardy?

Is the tank still over stocked being 6gallons? The mollies aren't much bigger than the beta.

Lucy

Your mollys are dying and I'm really sorry for that. We're just trying to help you figure out why.

Yes, your tank is overstocked. See my first post.

Here's the profile on the fish you have:
http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-Betta.htm
http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-Mollies.htm
http://www.fishlore.com/Profiles-Pleco.htm

When choosing fish for your tank, you should calculate the adult size because hopefully, they'll grow.
Fish create waste which converts into ammonia which is toxic to your fish.
Just because some of the fish aren't dead doesn't mean they're not feeling the effects of ammonia on their gills and internal organs.

Despite what you've read elsewhere bettas normally do not make good community tank fish, especially in such a small tank. Here's a good link on betta care:
Welcome and Betta Care Guide - Please Read First!!!

A 50% water change can only do them good considering the amount of ammonia that must be present in the tank.
Are you testing your water?

soldieroffortune1974

The thing isn't the size of the fish so much,as the amount of wastes produced by the fish. The wastes produce ammonia,which is toxic to the fish.Changing the water 50% removes 50% of the ammonia.Keeping the fish more healthy.As opposed to changing the water 20% and only removing 20% of the accumulated ammonia.

Algae eaters are bottom dwellers mainly,meaning they are more suited to harsher conditions because the bottom is where all the garbage accumulates,so yes;they are more hardy,and can tolerate more.

Bettas can survive in extreme bad environments because they actually can breathe the same air we do at the surface of the water,by the labrynth organ.SO they too are more hardy and suited to bad conditions.

The mollies,can't do either,and suffer a lot more,so they die faster. Changing the water 50% will allow them to live in less stress and be healthier, 2 and a half times healthier than just doing 20% water changes,increasing their chances for survival.

estebo

I'll read those links.

That makes a lot of sense about the adult size, I wasn't sure if the extra gallon would make a big difference or not on the overstocked problem.

Also thanks for the clarification about why some aren't dead but are still suffering.

Once the ammonia problem is fixed will 50% water changes be detrimental to their health?

Lucy

Once the tank is cycled properly routine maintenance of weekly water changes of about 25% should keep things in check.

But really, if you have a common pleco, you'll have a hard time getting the ammonia under control in 6g of water.
He cannot live in a 5g tank they're huge waste producers and grow too big.

I hope you consider the advice and a) get a bigger tank and separate your fish or b) return some fish to the store.

We really want you to enjoy your tank and have healthy fish.

Good luck.

estebo

I don't have a pleco it's an otocinclus (I'm guessing it's a different fish because the pic of the pleco was completely different from the one I have.

And the links on the beta and mollies helped a lot and were very informational. I guess mollies and betas won't do well together.

We can't afford a bigger tank right now. I'll try returning the mollies. If they won't take them back hopefully they'll live long enough for us to buy a bigger tank.

THANKS FOR THE HELP EVERYONE!!

soldieroffortune1974

otocinclus are algae eaters. Also known as sucker-mouth catfish or "Ottos" and grow to 6 - 8 inches,a little bit large for a 6 gallon aquarium.

estebo

ottos actually only get up to 2in

http://www.fishlore.com/profiles_otocinclus.htm

you might be thinking of the chinese algae eater

soldieroffortune1974

oops......A newbie got me.......owwwwwwwwwwwwwww...........I am so ashamed.........

JUST KIDDING,yeah,I was thinking of the CAE growth size,sorry about that.

got me good.OWWWWWW

estebo

only because i checked the forum thingey

I'm glad my google search brought me here.

soldieroffortune1974

I couldn't agree more.I just recently arrived here myself,and I am loving every minute of it.There's no other forum,I go to now.......perfect site,lots of knowledgeable individuals, great environment and a large array of knowledge. Glad to be here,and glad to see you here too.

Welcome to Fishlore

Lucy

Keep your eye on Craig's List or try Freecycle.org A lot of members have gotten tanks for little money or free.

Ottos are one of the smaller cat fish, they only get be about 1.5"
After you get your tank fully cycled you could probably add another. (without the mollys) Ottos like company and is one of the few fish that might get along with your betta.

Attack of the giant ottos lol

soldieroffortune1974

bluealuefish

estebo, I'm not sure where you're from but I definitely recommend checking out craigslist or freecycle (and posting a want message) to get free or cheap used tanks in your area. If you're in brooklyn/ny I can point out a store for you that sells a 10gal kit for only $17.

estebo

i live in Spokane, WA

I'm checking craigslist. luckily petsmart is taking the mollies back so It's not a huge priority to get a bigger tank, granted i want a bigger tank

estebo

Alright so after taking the mollies out and doing three 50% water changes my beta appears to be happy and is swimming around the whole tank and occasionally playing with the otto.

This is how i did the H2O changes
1) I added water that I got from petco so it still had the good bacteria.
2) I had them put the water in the bucket i use for water changes so there was a lot of crud in it plus they got the water from the bottom where they hide the filter system and it had a lot of crud in it so i did another water change using regular water.

Then i went to petsmart to return the mollies
They were so upset that an employee didn't tell me I was overstocking so they gave me a few plants for free and a lot of nice clean water to use for another water change and not lose the good bacteria.

MY BETTA IS HAPPY NOW

Lucy

That's really good news.

Unfortunatly the water won't do much good for thr cycle. The bacteria isn't free flowing, instead it grows on gravel, decorations and filter media.

I'm surprised they admitted their mistake and didn't try to sell you even more fish!
Free plants yay!

estebo

yep i was pretty happy about the plants, I noticed today that there was even a small snale as well, smaller than a quarter inch.

soldieroffortune1974

Watch it,that 1 snail can easily turn into 1000 almost over night (that's not an exaggeration) they multiply VERY FAST.

Alasse

Snails can be your friend, they eat uneaten food, and can help with algae control. If they get out of hand, generally that is due to overfeeding.

soldieroffortune1974

Yeah,all I know is 3 years ago,my daughter put a snail from the pond,in my 175 gallon.That 1 snail exploded into a LOT of snails..................I definitely watch out for snails,definitely.They may be your friend,but they are my nightmare.

Alasse

I have snails in all my tanks, they only get to excessive numbers if i overfeed the fish in the tank, plenty of food encourages the snails to breed like mad things, mine cause me no problems at all....but i understand not all like them

estebo

my snail population has gone from one to 5....maybe a few more