Jackie Frost

A week ago I started a goldfish aquarium. I have two goldfish in a 15 gallon tank. (Yes, I now know the tank is too small for two goldfish but I'm stuck with that problem for now.) Anyway the temperature in my house fluctuates from 78 degrees in the morining to 80 by mid afternoon. No matter what I do (including increasing the airconditioner) I can't control this flucation and my goldfish are now listless. I'm thinking about buying a heater and keeping it at 80 degrees. I know this is high for goldfish but at least the temperature won't change. Does anyone have any other suggestions? I don't mean to sound so dramatic the health of my two goldfish are at stake.

Nutter

The best advice I can give you is to get a bigger tank ASAP!! The larger the body of water the less the fluctuations will be. The fish are listless because of the small tank. They just are not happy being so cramped.

Until you get a bigger tank for them try moving the tank to part of the house that has a more stable temp or placing it nearer the air conditioner. You can also point a fan directly at the tank with the lid removed for evaporative coolin. Stretch a stocking over the top to prevent escapees. If that doesn't work then cover the tank with a blanket or something like that to help insulate it abit. I use the polystyrene sheets that go underneath tanks to surround them on all sides in very warm weather. It means you can't see the fish bu tit's better to not see them as much than have them dead.

A heater will not help a great deal as you seem to be battling high temps rather than fluctuating ones. My GF's go through much larger fluctuations than that on a 24hr basis & they are fine. My temp very between 14 & 22degrees celcius.

Bottom line though, move the larger tank up your priority list.

Robin4

Hi Jackie Frost,

You can also try turning off the aquarium lights during the hotest times of the day.

Robin

Meenu

2 degrees doesn't seem so significant to me. what if t your fish are listless for a different reason althogether? Could you please list your water test results I'm thinking maybe your tank isn't cycled, and the ammonia or nitrite readings are a problem.

edit: I don't have goldfish, and am also new here. I just want to make sure we
aren't overlooking a bigger issue, and the fish are hurt because of it.

oh, and also, i see in your info that you are using a test strip. the experienced people on this site recommend the API master test kit with liquids because apparently, the strips are inaccurate.

Nutter

Good pickup Mommybaby295. I should have looked in the tank profile. It's only been set up for a week so it definitly isn't cycled fully yet.

Je55*e

That's very strange. The heater is probably malfunctioning. I would remove it right away (unplug it first!). You may not need a heater at all, if the temperature in your house stays warm enough for the water to be early to mid 70's.

Meenu

did you post this again?

Nick G

Hi Jackie, Welcome to Fishlore! Personally I would remove the heater, and if your fish are looking very listless, try adding a few icecubes to the tank. Even if the temp in your house is in the 80's the tank temp shouldn't get that high. Adding a few icecubes now and then should keep the temp down a little. Thats what I do in my Axolotyl tank in the summer here when the temps are high.

Meenu

I still say you should test your ammonia - your tank might not be cycled.

Je55*e

^Agreed. I hadn't thought to ask that. What are your results for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate?

Nutter

As I said in your other post about this your problem is not fluctuating temp, (though not ideal), it is more likely that the fish feel cramped along with the temp being consistently high.
Mommybaby 295 is spot on with the tank not being cycled. I would lay 90% of my money on that with a 10% side bet on what I mentioned.

Jackie Frost

[quote=mommybaby295;686148]2 degrees doesn't seem so significant to me. what if t your fish are listless for a different reason althogether? Could you please list your water test results I'm thinking maybe your tank isn't cycled, and the ammonia or nitrite readings are a problem.

Thanks guys! I went into this aquarium fish thing with my eyes wide closed. If I knew then what I know now, I would have waited a week to get the fish and would have gotten TROPICAL fish instead of goldfish since goldfish need so much more room.

The people at Walmart told me the fish tank would be fully cycled within three days. From what you guys said I have a feeling that's not true. As for my water test results they all were perfectly normal except for the pH and Alkanity. Those were quite high. I droped a ph tablet in the tank this morning, so hopefully that will help. But yes I was using those cheap dip sticks to measure water quality. Does that mean the results were all wrong?

Jackie Frost

Sorry about repeating this post. I looked around the forum and decided I posted my question in the wrong area. Then when I tried to remove the other one, I couldn't. Maybe an administrator could help ...

Meenu

what you want on your readings is 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 10-20 nitrates. any ammonia is bad and toxic for your fish.

the multi strips I have seen usually don't test for ammonia. do you have a test for that?

definately don't trust walmart for fish advice. blech. you should read up on the nitrogen cycle. it can take weeks, not 3 days! I really have a feeling your problem is ammonia, and not the temp. poor goldfish!

if i were you, I'd see if walmart will let you return the fish. here, they have a 2-week return policy, yours may too. then I would cycle my tank without fish (there is a page here you can read about that), and buy 4 guppies and 3 corydora catfish for my tank. i would also pick up an api test kit with the little bottles. at petco, it was 32, but i got it from amazon for 23 shipping included. i'd also buy some Prime water conditioner, and treat the tank with that whenever I had ammonia readings.


when you say your readings are fine, can you give us the numbers please?

edit: by the way, i am 2 weeks into this fish thing, messed up my cycle, and am now cycling with danios, corys, and guppies. I am using tetra safe start. so you probably want to wait for advice from someone more experienced than me.

Jackie Frost

The dip sticks don't test for amonia. The reason I thought it was the temperature was because Molly and Goldie (my fish names) were so happy and perky in the morning at 78 degree farenheit and then would become listless as the afternoon wore on. You're probably right. I will try to return the goldfish tommorow morning. (I don't want them to suffer.) and get an amonia testing kit.

Meenu

hmm, then maybe it is just the temp after all. do you have a tank thermometer?



oh, i missed where you said you dropped in a pH tab. I understand that most fish will adapt to your pH, fluctuations are very bad and stressful to the fish, and if you artificially mess with the pH, when you do water chaNGES, your pH will be all over the place.

can someone please confirm this advice

aquarist48

Hello Jack Frost and Welcome to Fish Lore.
Goldfish, Fancy Goldfish - Carassius auratus
Goldfish Caresheet
The Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle <---crucial to fish keeping
I've provided you with some links that I think you'll find very helpful. Pay particular attention to the Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle link.
Best wishes for you and your fish.
I hope you enjoy the site!
Ken

Hello again Jack. Please do not create 2 threads on the same subject. I have merged your 2 threads. It can get very confusing to other members and it isn't necessary. Members will respond if they have the answer to your questions in time If you feel you've posted in the wrong section of the forum you can ask any moderator to move it for you. Too, if we see it's in the wrong location we'll move it.
Thanks!
Ken

Jackie Frost

Hi Gang! Thanks for all of your helpfull advice. The goldfish are doing a little better this morning (78 degrees according to my tank digital thenomete). They're acting perky, but I know that's going to change once the temperature rises again. I'm going to try and return them to Walmart this morning. (I don't want my money back. I just want them to take the fish back so they'll live.) If Walmart refuses then I will get a heater and keep the tank at a constant 80 degrees. (I know that's high for goldfish, but what else can I do? At least it will stop the flucuations.) I'll also get a an amonia testing kit. Wish me luck gang ...

Oh and thank you Aquarist for merging the posts.

aquarist48

Hello Jackie. Maybe Walmart will let you exchange them for other fish or give you store credit. Take your receipt if you have it.
Best of luck.
Ken

Jackie Frost

Okay gang, here's the latest. Walmart refused to take them back without a receipt (which I naturally lost). They refused to take them back even though I didn't want any credit for them. So I got the heater and I'm going to keep the tank at a constant 80. (Last night by the way my goldfish tank reached 82!!!)

Oh, I tested for amonia using what I think is a high quality tester (API Amonia Test Kit) and it came back 0.25. So I think that's low enough where it won't hurt my goldfish. But please let me know immediately if I'm wrong. I want these guys to pull through (well Molly's a girl) if they can.

peacemaker92

Hi Jackie. So sorry that you're having trouble with temperature. There shouldn't be any ammonia in the water. Even a bit of ammonia can be very harmful for your fish. Members would suggest to use a bottle of prime and do daily water changes. Best of luck!

Meenu

If you want to give the goldies away and get different, smaller fish, I have a couple of suggestions: see if a local fish store in your area will take them. It's unlikely they will give you credit towards another fish, but it never hurts to ask. All of the LFS's in my area will take your fish if you aren't able to keep them. Or post on craigslist - maybe someone with a big tank or pond can take them off your hands.

If you decide to keep them, good luck! And my understanding is that they are good with a wide range of temperature, up to 90 degrees, so I think your 82 is fine for them. And know that 30 gallon minimum is recommended for 2 goldfish, so you may want to plan a bigger tank into your budget within the next few months (I assume they are tiny right now). And they produce a lot of waste, so you'll have to get an appropriate filter.

.25 ammonia doesn't sound like much, but it is. Fish can get ammonia poisoning. I think mine started to get it, because their gills turned red. You'll need to put in smething to detoxify the ammonia (Prime detoxifies it for 24 hours at a time) and do a water change. The suggestion people here make is to do this every day until you have no ammonia or nitrite readings, and your tank cycles.

I did it for two days, and then I went and got a bottle of Tetra Safe Start and poured that in instead. The red is gone and the fish are doing so much better, seem much happier.

Jackie Frost

More bad news gang ...

I finally got the temperature steady but I was observing Goldie (a common feeder goldfish, but my daughter fell in love with him) and I saw some small white patches on him. The patches are very small, white and fluffy and I'm sure it means an infection of some kind.

After doing some research I think it's a fungus infection. I'm going to try and get some ICH medicine but somehow I don't hold out much hope for Goldie. My Black Moor Molly on the other hand has no white patches so there may still be hope for her. I want to react quickly to protect her.

So it's fuzzy coat fingus right? Will ich medication take care of it? And no I don't have a quarantine tank.

Who'd guess that fish aquarium keeping would be so hard?

Meenu

Are you able to take a picture and post it? I think Ich looks like salt on the fish. If it is Ich, the members here recommend not medicating the fish, but instead raising the tank temp. to 84 and leaving it there for 2 weeks. A couple of times a week, vaccuum the gravel to remove Ich spores. I've read where aquarist48 (Ken) says that Ich can only survive in up to 82 degrees, and the 84 for 2 weeks kills the disease.

Walmart doesn't take good care of their fish, and I think the fish don't start out very healthy. I would suggest you not get more fish from there.

Jackie Frost

I don't think it's Ich. I remember what Ich looks like from my childhood aquariums (Like salt sprinkled on fish, right?) No these are small white patches on the left hand side of the fish. The patches are on it's fin and the top portion of his body. At first I thought it was simply mild discoloration. (I first noticed it yesterday.) But they've gotten bigger. I'm sort of seeing him as a goner now and concentrating on the Moor. I don't want her to catch it too ...

And you're right about Walmart. I will NEVER go to them for fish again. What should I do. I hope you don't think this is terrible but I'm thinking a little bit about humane enuthiasm. Certianly no fish store is going to take him now ...and I want to save my Moor.

gremlin

I'm sorry I missed this thread yesterday - it was a very busy day for me.

Anyway - sorry to hear your goldies aren't feeling well. The white patch may also be a burn. You say you put a heater in the tank - do the goldies swim by it? I had an issue with sunburn in my pond last summer and it is white patches that look kind of fuzzy. Goldies can handle a temperature change from 68 - 90 in one day. The larger the volume of water they are in, the less the temperature will change each day. Since you don't have a larger tank right now, you might be able to insulate your current tank somewhat. Get one of those el-cheapo styrofoam coolers from WalMart (or where ever) and cut it to fit around your tank. Or get some sheets of stryofoam (or other foam type material) from a craft store. Fit them around the back and sides of the tank to help insulate it from the changing temps in the room. That should help to stabilize the temp a bit. Pics of the injury/infection would definitely be helpful to identify it. Attached is a pic of one of my sunburned fishies. All healed up with no medications - just some added shade.

Attached Images

04-15-07_1305 sunburned goldfish.JPG (50.5 KB, 14 views)

Jackie Frost

Unfortunately I can't take pics. My camera broke a long time ago.

Goldie died by the way. He was a cheap feeder goldfish that my daughter insisted we get for our tank, but I feel bad about it anyway. At least he had a large roomy aquarium to play in before he expired (compared to the Walmart tanks.)


That's possible. The moment I put the heater in the tank both fish swam up to it and (kissed?) it being curious. I think I first saw the white patches before I installed the heater, though I'm not totally sure of that. I honestly can't remember.

Molly my Black Moor fish seems to be doing fine. Now I have to decide what my next step should be as regards to the tank.